Cord, I think you were complimenting me, so thank you.
Mark, I listened to the whole lecture, and did not get what you did out of it.
He said that with the availability of high-speed internet, in one's home with easy access, 
we are FAR more likely to fall and act out and develop a serious problem.
Therefore, what I got out of that was, that limiting the amount of time I spend on the computer
will help me tremendously.

Also, while I have certain addictive tendencies and possibly an addictive personality,
I am not a sex addict. Removing the stimulus that is the precursor to acting out will dramatically
reduce the chances of me acting out. Isn't this logical? 
He said in his lecture, that when we remove the barriers to do a certain behavior, then we find
that there are a lot more incidents of that behavior. Well, I'm putting up some barriers.

Thanks for the link Markz.  It was very good.

Barriers are good.  If that is all you need, great. Time will tell.

I'd like to hear Mark's response to my post.
I was a little tired when I heard the lecture, so perhaps I missed something.
Do you disagree with what I wrote?

Yosef Tikun HaYesod wrote on 13 Jan 2017 11:56:


Don't disagree ;-)
I want to know what you thought about minute 6:40 to 7:40




When my barriers keep coming down every couple of months I may not be an absolute addict, but very close

I'm sure you heard about the man who said
"My son in Law he's a bomba metzia - he's awesome!!!"
To which his friend replied
"And my son in law... well... he's a Chefetz Chashud..."

So the definition of 'addict' is very fine almost to atomic levels and if you split an atom...

Yosef,

Have you looked into webchaver? Although I respect how far you have gone with your filter.. giving your son the other end to the password, I just think that this kind of system is bound to fail at times. I did a similar thing in the past and although it did work MOST of the time it wasnt fool proof by a long shot. Being that you know that if you ask your password holder to put it in they will listen.. and that your mind when you are caught in the moment WILL come up with ways to use that opening I think that sometime down the line, if not today or tomorrow then in a month from now, a fall is going to happen. I found that webchaver is a much better solution. I dont have a block or filter. But my wife gets reports every week about the activity and if there is something there that is inappropriate, she will approach me about it.

Also, I've tried this whole working out the self control muscle thing and imo it doesn't work. If you ask me the way to beat this problem we have is by living healthy good lives. We need to learn how to deal with the stresses and mood changes that exist in normal life in a healthy manner. I once heard from a Rav that if someone learns to control themselves with food it will help with Taavas Nashim. I disagree. I think that controlling myself with food will make me frustrated and upset that will lead to a serious fall. Why put restrictions on ourselves that don't need to be there. Life is difficult as it is. Why should't I scratch an itch if I have one? 

Just my opinion
Keep up the good work

chizukconstant wrote on 13 Jan 2017 15:44:

II was really likin' this post.
The last four sentences took a turn.
I'm not sure the meanin'.

B'hatzlachah to all.

Listened again to it.
That minute of the coke addict fantasizing about getting high, Boruch HaShem, 
does not describe my experience at all.

10:23-10:48 is very enlightening and helpful for me.
I need to intervene and make sure I hit "x" and not leave the time and content controls open
(when he gets his paycheck on Thursday afternoon, he is vulnerable,
and when I change the time settings, I am vulnerable).
I need to:
1. anticipate the problem (basic relapse prevention)
2. realize that the closer I get to the desired object,
the less able I am going to be able to make good decisions for myself

This 5-minute clip from Rav Shafier is so true too:
www.guardureyes.com/GUE/Music/mus/Telescope.mp3

I am determined to break this bad habit. 
But it sure is difficult.
I wanted to just join and start the count and succeed...and break free.
And, I guess, some people do just that.
Well, that hasn't happened to me.
I've learned more of what I need to do to prevent myself from falling...
AND YET I have fallen into the same trap: changing the time settings, then leaving it open,
not "x"ing it out, then turning on videos/streaming, then seeing triggering beautiful women not dressed properly, then hours or days later, being horny and weak and feeling why not, I don't have it in real life and I want it and it's not so bad, it's a basic need, and then changing it to allow adult content and acting out.
Pretty stupid for a smart guy.
Kind of like eating so many french fries on Pesach that I have an upset stomach and feel like I may even throw up, and then having that exact same experience again on Sukkos!
Am I an idiot? I'm a smart guy. So, why don't I know enough to NOT fall into the same trap?
Don't say I'm addicted to french fries or overeating. 

The same pitfalls, the same traps...it's embarrassing.
I want to grow and to change for the better. 
I don't want to keep fighting (and mainly losing) the same battles.
I want to win and break the pattern of these bad habit behaviors.
And I know it's possible.
ACTING on what we KNOW to be true.
Living it and not just talking about it.
Screamed out of pain and frustration...it's a start.

I looked into webchaver. It won't work for me.
I am already subjecting myself to brutal honesty here in this thread and on Group 196 thread
and in emails to a few people. That hasn't held me back. And I'm not going to pay $5 a month.
---------------
The answer is that it is not rational. I am sometimes acting irrationally.
It doesn't mean I know how to stop doing that...but whatever.
Just a little while ago, (AFTER posting my last comment) I took a shower and shave and had thoughts of maybe even failing again. Unbelievable! 
Boruch HaShem, I passed this nisayon and got out of there, and did a mitzvah (instead).
But I came really pretty close...definitely not rational! 

Either the yetzer hara was just toying with me, taunting me, look how WEAK you are.
Just give in and give up. Close down the thread, fade into the crowd again for a while...maybe years.
OR it was HaShem showing me that He still loves me and giving me a pretty easy victory to make me feel better after just failing. 
Maybe it was even both!
HaShem rooting for me and trying to lift my spirits and help me feel close to Him,
and the yetzer hara rooting against me, trying to destroy me and get me to give up. 
Wow!
Boruch HaShem, I decided to restrain my tyvahs and get out of there.
Guess I'm ready to keep on monster trucking....as some might say.
Have a great day!

Yosef Tikun HaYesod wrote on 15 Jan 2017 15:34:


Yosef,

I commented on my thread that even if one isn't an addict, change of anything is brutally hard. If a person consistently comes late to shacharis, he might not be an addict to coming late and he will promise and make deals with himself to come on time, but most of the time it will be same old same old until he actually decides that he wants to change and does it in a way that doesn't actually sabotage the process.

Most people, certainly myself, don't know how to do change well on our own. In anything- speaking less lashon hara, checking my phone, or a million other things.

So the minimum to be successful is to analyze the different steps that lead to trouble and work with all the tools you can to avoid it- which it sounds like you're doing some of from the schmuz stuff.

My Rebbi once gave a shiur Yomim Noraim time and he said that we have to write out a plan and basically chart out a plan of action that will help us actually change. He's a very organized person, so I raised my hand and said "But what if you're not the organized charting type?" And he said "Well, if you don't have some way to keep track and analyze and do a consistent cheshbon, it's unlikely to be successful."

So see what kind of consistent plan you can work on.

Yosef Tikun HaYesod wrote on 15 Jan 2017 15:34:

would it help you if someone paid for it?
what about if the emails were surreptitiously forwarded to a 'gadol' on your approval.

Personally i think its nice that you are focusing on the trigger that caused it a few days ago but you need to bring something to the table when you are ready to give up and fall.

No way would I agree to that. Just calling my Rov once was a huge thing...
and admitting whenever I fall to the people who are trying to help me is enough embarrassment, thank you.
------------
What does this line mean: "you need to bring something to the table when you are ready to give up and fall.​"

Yosef Tikun HaYesod wrote on 15 Jan 2017 18:52:

I think what that line means is that you have to be willing to do something that really hurts to stop you from falling.

Once in a blue moon I have the following fleeting thought. When you get into the struggle and the ongoing nature of it becomes a reality, sometimes you start to think about how you will manage it. I'll do this and that and probably only fall once a month, once a quarter, only slip sometimes.

And then you remember that optimally, you shouldn't be doing any of this ever. Now, that's not necessarily a helpful thought, is it? But where it is relevant is that when you think about what you have to do so stop, you can claim that the urge is too hard to stop acting out. But what excuse do we have not to at least try everything?

According to Halacha, we have to give up all our money rather than do a lav. So what do we have to try to do to stop this?

Thats the thought I have sometimes. That might be what he means. 

YosefTH wrote:


On the Rabbi Miller Thread
YosefTH wrote:


Yosef - you seem like a sweet guy

Maybe we should meet up one day ;-)

I joined GYE to get the irrational stuff under control

Perhaps, the opposite of Addiction is connection

but

The opposite of irrationality is not rationality

Please think about what I just said
No immediate response necessary

cordnoy wrote on 13 Jan 2017 17:07:

What I meant was simply that frustration is a big trigger for many people. So if one were to try and hold them-self back from food in order to learn self control it may backfire by causing them to act out.. and all for not being that food is mutar. Rather, one should learn self control by not doing that which is assur because they need to stop doing that regardless of whether it frustrates them. By doing that they will hopefully learn self control.. 

@Yosef 
"No way would I agree to that. Just calling my Rov once was a huge thing...
and admitting whenever I fall to the people who are trying to help me is enough embarrassment, thank you."
The way I see it is that this is exactly why webchaver works. I know it is scary knowing that it will be incredibly embarrassing if you fall, but that is exactly what will stop you. I know from experience.. it works.
Also, they do have a filter to go along with the accountability which gives you a double fence. 

Its something to strongly consider. 

My apologies, but I'm not understanding.

Sometimsometimes you wrote that one should learn to live healthy lives (I take that to mean by mussar, steps, etc. not filters), and then you say that shame will help one recover. I'm confused.