mr.clean wrote:


First commit to stop....then we will talk.

Btw, don't you consider other people's successful experiences as being pretty practical....even if you don't understand it?

Who says "life is to short for temporary solutions"?

Maybe that's what life is all about? Maybe we have to constantly battle this till we die.(Yes you will say with 12 steps its not a battle. Ok so we have to surrender till we die. The point is, any action we commit ourselves to toward the riddance or containment of lust is life time. Even one who follows the 12 steps, he constantly hs to review and commit himself to that lifestyle.)
And so maybe the way to do that is via temp solutions for life?

Markz,

Let me first make it clear its assur and bad to masterbate period.

Secondly, there is a lav of ולא תתרו as well as other lavin not to look at naked ladies. As far as I know masterbation is terrible and some seforim say a chayiuv misa bedi shomiam, but there is not outright lav.

To the main point though, we do have a fifth shulchan aruach called common sense. In my case, (I don't speak for Mr. Clean at all), I can sleep fine without viewing porn. My body is not hooked on porn. Thus, viewing it is just straight running after a tavia that I have full control over myself not to run after. Conversely, can't sleep at night without masterbating. I don't have full control over that yetzer. That's not an excuse not to work on it. But common sense dictates which one you will be held more accountable for.

Cords,

Is it practical if you don't understand it?? I mean 12 steps is not abra cadabra. One has to work on himself in order for it to work. Well I can only work on myself if I understand what I am doing. I am not a robot.

Another issue with 12 steps is that a prerequisite is a full commitment to stop. Well some of us have to get to that prerequisite as well. Some of us know its wrong but are not committed to stop. That's why more needs to be talked about how to build that commitment to do whats right. I think this is what Mr. Clean is trying to do. I wouldn't mind a forum on how to build up commitments.

waydown wrote:


thou shalt first commit to thy surrender/12 step way of living and henceforth thou may comment on it

and in normal english, while effort is needed to remain vigilant about sex addiction/shemiras einayim/wtvr it does not mean that we have to fight our whole lives. very big difference between the two.

also, quite frankly, you haven't budged one mashehu on ur shi|tta, didn't you come here to change and not stay the same? i feel like this has been repeated 1000 times.

Shlomo,

Firstly, I didn't come hear to change my middos even though I should. I came here because I had a lust problem. And its far from gone but its much much better.

Secondly, I have budged quite alot on many stuff,

1) I use to think porn or flirting was my problem not masterbation. I know realize its lust (That's not a stira to saying that commons sense dictates that porn is worse. In fact it supports that argument. Because if lust truely is my problem then thats the harder one to conquer. Thats the one I have less control over. That's the sin thats harder to stay away from. Again that does not make it permissible.)

2) I use to think 12 steps was magic now I don't.

There are lots of more changes. All I am saying is I understand Mr. Cleans point.

Effort and fighting are differnet but however you cut it, its an ongoing commitment. Thats my point. So if one chooses to make small time temp solutions why is that necessarly bad? It can be dangerous because an individual is susceptible to slip back into lust much sooner. In other words as many have mentioned, half hearted solutions may not work. But the actual notion of life is too short for temp solutions I don't necessary follow.

Also you say" thou shalt first commit to thy surrender/12 step way of living and henceforth thou may comment on it"

As of lately I have never commented in relation to knocking that approach one bit.All I commented on it was what should one do if he doesn't have the will power to commit to it? And as one that has tried working the 12 steps but had a commitment issue I can ask that question.

So please answer the following question, one who is not committed to fully stop or surrender what should he do?

waydown wrote:
My friend - what you write in this and the previous post needs alot of thought, so if I can get my head around it, i might reply

Rav Markz,

Feel free to ask away. What thought is needed. I am an open book.

Mr clean I see your name on the 90 day chart. Do you need some softener

Mr Clean

Day 42

I'm impressed!!
You have a monstah muffler drivin on the highway, and we don't even hear you!

Keep on Trucking!!!!!!

Thx mark! Yea bh this is working for me:) took time but so far working Better then other things I've tried. I come on once in a while and subscribe to some of the threads that look cool, I'll post sometimes though, only when I feel I can be of help though:) thx for the check up! And KOT!