Well done. That's what Dov calls not deifying women.

I'm back again after nearly 2 years because someone asked about me and Zemmy emailed me to tell me.

I've just signed up for the chizzuk emails again to help with my daily challenges going to and from work.

Welcome Back!!!

Great news!

Nice to see you again!

I just got 90 GYE clean days! If it wasn't for the Wall I would have had a few peeks at porn.

1698 days SA sober. 90 days GYE clean.

That's why I love the Guard.

Mazel Tov!!!

Thanks for checking in!

Blind Beggar wrote:


Hi

Whats the difference between SA sobriety and GYE clean?

thanks for your post

very nice. i am inspired by your desire to get "gye clean" even though you have been sexually sober for quite some time. KOT!

SA sober means no masturbation or extra-marital sex. GYE adds no erotic images or text.

Not really. I feel that's a bit of a misleading way to portray SA and I've seen it many posted many times by other well-meaning GYE people. But since we know each other a bit in person, why not try to really communicate on this? So here goes my attempt:

SA is a program focused on freedom from the tyranny of Lust in our lives. Sex is just one manifestation of Lust. Just read 'The SA Purpose' in the White book and look at the 12 Steps of SA. Neither talks of sobriety or of abstinence from sex or masturbation! Both refer to Lust as the issue, and lust only. So recovery in SA includes, by SA's mission statement, progressive freedom from lust.

Lust is much broader than Sex-with-self/others. For this reason, some SA members see the sobriety definition as a starting point - and they restart their sobriety date if they look at porn, and some change it even if they just fantasize. For this reason, voluntary abstinence from sex is chosen by some SA couples for a few months or longer even though the sexaholic spouse os sober, in order to gain better freedom from preoccupation with lust.

So is that 'better' that or 'less than' GYE's definition/goals?

I am not answering that. It's up to you. But I will say this:

Most non-addict frummies don't even consider (nor would understand) such a thing. Usually that is because they do not see lust in anything that is 100% mutar. For the core of the issue for them is really issur vs heter, good vs bad. Nothing going on for them about freedom for its own sake, healing from true illness, etc.

The sobriety definition of SA is just a bottom line that defines what the bottom floor is - where hope is found - that's all. It's not the Goal of the program by any stretch of the imagination. Even in AA, people recognize that there is such a thing as a dry drunk and they see the purpose of the steps as elimination of that. Serenity. They recognize that nowhere in the 12 Steps does it talk about 'not drinking alcohol', certainly not as a goal. It's the bottom floor - like breathing. No one walks around telling people that the fact that they are breathing today is the be-all and end-all of living - even though life ends without it! Same with sobriety, exactly.

Instead, the Goals of the 12 steps are clearly stated, in 4 places:

1- being restored to Sanity as a general Goal (not referring to sobriety, mind you) - mentioned in Step 2;

2- deciding to (not succeeding, mind you, but just deciding to) do whatever it takes in order to learn how to truly accept G-d's plans for our lives (again nothing directly to do with not sinning any more, or even with not drinking) - mentioned in Step 3 and actually carried out in steps 4-10;

3- becoming aware of exactly what the recovering drunk is to do with his day/life and to come closer to knowing his G-d - mentioned in Step 11;

4- having a spiritual awakening - by Step 12.

And none of these things happen until after a person is already sober. They cease to work and quickly become a religious-sounding mind-game, if the addict gets busy trying to be a successful drinker again...in other words: normal.

So sobriety from alcohol for the AA, and from Lust by the SA...at the least, from sex with self or anyone other than the spouse - is the one absolutely necessary requirement for recovery and the Goals of the Program.

Normal people (non-addicts) can achieve these goals without being sober. In fact, they can achieve these goals (all of them) even though they are still occasionally masturbating, etc.! That's what makes them normal - their lives are manageable even though they do such things...an addict's life, is not.

That sit well with you?

I heard my name mentioned in Dov's post

serenity wrote:


Next time go for Sanity while you are at it, pal...

it is a great thing in love to be the apple of His eye, that means each of us have the sole focus of His attention to me. I am his, and He is mine. Because both man and woman were the two of them in the single image of their Maker, therefore for me, My One will and is changing me in every adversary event to behold His image, not only on the physical plane, but to come to appreciate the bond through hear, sharing, communicating, and many others. when we were tempted of just the physical beauty, we have made the outward looks to be more important than the real essence of the person, we have settled for a temporary moment of intimacy. we have sought to bond with a stranger, who has not chosen to be are mate. When we have an intimate seeking to bein the image of HaShem, then attraction of the One, Let us be bone of Adams bone, let us b~one in our One! First the marriage circle, then family, then eve widen circles. One Ace of spAce, and we are privileged to share in the position of representing His love.