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Re: Boyfriend-girlfriend relationship 02 Dec 2020 05:23 #358075

  • lou
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Hi, Based on your earlier response that you are both frum and it's a secret I would have to echo some of the advice from the Chosheve oilam over here. The only real Eitza,unless you are ready to go to a Rebbe and your families to discuss and really marry her  is to break it off cold turkey. You should be a mentsch and tell her,but long goodbyes and commiserating with each other will get you nowhere.You can commiserate with us! I have been in similar relationships more than once. Very different set of circumstances,but same idea of feeling a "real" connection and thinking maybe this is really good for me. Only hindsight has shown me how important it was to just break away from it.
It is not easy!! Hashem should give you the strength.

Re: Boyfriend-girlfriend relationship 02 Dec 2020 05:24 #358076

To “yeshivaguy” I appreciate what you wrote... so kind and caring and sensitive about it.. I appreciate it... I would love to hear some tips on how to take a break from this... 
“Distancing and removing triggers is only bringing the door closer..Changing the insides and our nature is the key to get in.” 

“Human connection can help every sort of struggle” 

If anyone would like to reach me I’d love to help out! 
anonymouslyhappy111@gmail.com

Break free the easy way using the self-talk method!
https://guardyoureyes.com/forum/4-On-the-Way-to-90-Days/378128-Captain--Shtarkemotionals-Secret90Day-Challenge

Check out this thread with packed Insight for every person at every stage! 
https://guardyoureyes.com/forum/1-Break-Free/376994-%E2%80%9CShtark%E2%80%9D-insight-that-may-make-you-%E2%80%9Cemotional%E2%80%9D-%29

Re: Boyfriend-girlfriend relationship 02 Dec 2020 05:52 #358080

  • yeshivaguy
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Shtarkandemotional wrote on 02 Dec 2020 05:24:
To “yeshivaguy” I appreciate what you wrote... so kind and caring and sensitive about it.. I appreciate it... I would love to hear some tips on how to take a break from this... 

Absolutely buddy. I know it’s not as easy as it sounds, guys say just break it off etc, but it’s very difficult. Especially as someone (like myself) who is drawn to emotion and thirsts for a deep relationship...
I know it’s not just taiva, and that’s what makes it so much harder.

Theres 2 things we should be looking to do.
1.Break off this relationship with the least emotional pain and most erlichkeit possible.
2. Find something to satisfy, or at least distract from, (for the time being until marrige) your tremendous cheishik for such a relationship. Obviously we can’t yet redirect this inner ratzon entirely, that will need to wait for marrige. But we can help you cope.

Regarding #1: A lot of it depends on your style. Meaning, I’m a pretty intense guy, so I once wrote an emotional letter (expressing my appreciation to her etc, and how this is so hard for me but it’s what I need to do etc)
but could be here it would have the opposite affect and just drive your emotions through the roof.

Though a face to face conversation is also pretty intense, so perhaps a phone call would be preferable.
You can take ur pick and we can discuss what to say/wright.

For those of us who are naturally driven primarily by emotion then intellect, it’s hard, in a time like this to act upon pure seichel and not be משועבד to the Lev (as in emotion, not necessarily refers to taiva).
This is a life’s work, and is the tachlis haAdam (as we can discuss another time)- That ones Seichel rule their Lev.
So in this position, it helps to be aware of this Stira within you. Two opposing kochos within the Adam.
Your Seichel says it’s best to break it off but your Lev says it can’t.
Im not giving an eitza, I’m saying to be aware of what’s happening.
What you are experiencing is גופא the nisayon of אדם in this world אחר החטא.
Contemplate this.
You are choosing what is objectively better over that which feels better.
Your mind is ruling your heart with this decision.
A high darga.
This is a big Yesod b’chlall in Yidishkeit, and it helps immensely to always be aware of this inner struggle.

We’ll discuss #2 later. Meanwhile u can respond to this and choose which mahalach you’d like to take (letter v.s face to face or phone call)

With much admiration,

YeshivaGuy
Last Edit: 02 Dec 2020 05:58 by yeshivaguy.

Re: Boyfriend-girlfriend relationship 02 Dec 2020 06:05 #358081

I’ve tried everything already!!! Nothing takes the place!!!! Nothing...I’ve tried everything... 
“Distancing and removing triggers is only bringing the door closer..Changing the insides and our nature is the key to get in.” 

“Human connection can help every sort of struggle” 

If anyone would like to reach me I’d love to help out! 
anonymouslyhappy111@gmail.com

Break free the easy way using the self-talk method!
https://guardyoureyes.com/forum/4-On-the-Way-to-90-Days/378128-Captain--Shtarkemotionals-Secret90Day-Challenge

Check out this thread with packed Insight for every person at every stage! 
https://guardyoureyes.com/forum/1-Break-Free/376994-%E2%80%9CShtark%E2%80%9D-insight-that-may-make-you-%E2%80%9Cemotional%E2%80%9D-%29

Re: Boyfriend-girlfriend relationship 02 Dec 2020 06:05 #358082

  • yeshivaguy
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Shtarkandemotional wrote on 02 Dec 2020 05:10:
Just feels like such a challenging state... such a torn matzav... cuz it’s a distraction in my life and I can’t focus and learn and here and there (rarely) we meet and even then (rarely) we slip with shomer negiah... 

Yup I totally feel ya.
Its super rough and confusing, cuz you feel/see so much good yet you see lmaaseh there’s big negatives to it.
I think it’s clear what needs to be done buddy.
Respond to my previous post, we’ll get through this together

Re: Boyfriend-girlfriend relationship 02 Dec 2020 06:08 #358083

  • yeshivaguy
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Shtarkandemotional wrote on 02 Dec 2020 06:05:
I’ve tried everything already!!! Nothing takes the place!!!! Nothing...I’ve tried everything... 

Tried everything? 
1.what constitutes “everything”?
2.how long did u spend trying?
and 3. I never said it will take the place, I said we can help u cope.
Dude, I was ligit dying a just a few months ago, u can check my thread.
Now I’m shteiging in Yeshiva.
Its possible
Last Edit: 02 Dec 2020 06:11 by yeshivaguy.

Re: Boyfriend-girlfriend relationship 02 Dec 2020 07:35 #358086

  • Ish MiGrodno
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You are dealing with a nisayon the likes of which I cannot fathom. "Cold turkey" can only work if you appreciate the magnitude of the greatness that it would take to sever the relationship. Although I would never wish such a test on anyone, I envy your schar (I constantly tell my talmidim not to overfocus on the reward awaiting in olam haba, but to the elevated and indescribable feeling that one has immediately after conquering a taavah, after being mevater, etc; there is no parallel in the physical world)

Feel free to email me at jackz90dys@gmail.com

ה׳ עמך גבור החיל! [שופטים ו׳ יב׳]

 Perhaps you can find chizuk from my thread at guardyoureyes.com/forum/19-Introduce-Yourself/356161-Intro 

Feel free to reach out to me at
jackz90dys@gmail.com

Re: Boyfriend-girlfriend relationship 02 Dec 2020 15:35 #358098

  • sapy
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Can I ask you a few questions?
1) do tou feel that without her you dont have why to live for?
2) do you ask her before making a decision on everything?
3) is it very important for you that you agree on almost everything?
4) do you need her in order to be happy? 
5) do you think about her, what she would think, do, approve of, when you do stuff that has nothing to do with her?
6) do you feel you havto share EVERYTHING with her?
7) do you need her approval on everything you do in order to feel good?
8) do you have mixed feelings while answering those questions, trying to figure out out what the right answer should be in order to say that this is indeed a great match, or trying to make excuses why it really is good???
Be honest with yourself...
Last Edit: 02 Dec 2020 15:45 by sapy.

Re: Boyfriend-girlfriend relationship 02 Dec 2020 15:55 #358101

  • yuyu
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One thing I marvel at is how is it possible in the frum community that something like this should happen without anyone noticing it?

How can such a relationship be established in the first place between 2 frumies and how can it be possibly be sustained?
What does a GUN and LUST have in common? 
Remove the trigger, you remove their power. 

Re: Boyfriend-girlfriend relationship 02 Dec 2020 16:48 #358102

I can’t even start to imagine how hard this is for you. 

You're probably thinking to yourself:
"Why do I really need to break up with her? If we go so good together, why can't I just continue? You might argue that it's bad for my yiddishkeit, but I truly feel that I've really grown since I've met her."

Let me tell you, I once went to visit my family, who had a girl about my age. We started talking. I fell in love with her. More precisely, I was totally infatuated by her. I already saw myself together with her. 

Even though my situation wasn't so involved as yours, my point is that I wasn't seeing clearly. Even after not having spoken to her and seeing her for a few weeks and months, I still felt a 'connection'.

I find the problem with these situations is that as long as we're involved, and perhaps as long as we see it as a possibility we aren't able to think clearly.

Therefore, I would highly recommend what has been recommended by the choshuve oilem over here: either seek daas toireh on this issue by someone who knows you and find clarity, and if he tells you to marry her, then fine. Or break it off. 

The situation as is can't continue.

I know it's an extremely hard situation on your part. And the fact that you were able to reach out over here, makes you a true hero. But the fact that you reached out over here shows that you yourself realize that this situation is not optimal. It's probably tearing you up on the inside. That's normal. 

You're at a crossroads where every option is painful. 
1.) Reaching out is extremely hard, especially with the nature of this issue being very sensitive.
2.) Breaking up doesn't even seem possible. How can you get yourself to break up with your best friend, especially if she might be your bashert?
3.) Continuing the way it's gone so far might be the easiest option and that's why it has continued up till now. But you yourself realize that it's not right and it's eating you up on the inside.

At the end of the day, Hashem created each one of us with a moral compass. You know what the right thing is to do, and as long as you won’t follow that inner guide, you’ll feel that bitter aftertaste.

May Hashem give you the inner strength to do what is right in his eyes.

AM

Re: Boyfriend-girlfriend relationship 02 Dec 2020 17:27 #358103

Firstly THANK YOU everyone!!
“Distancing and removing triggers is only bringing the door closer..Changing the insides and our nature is the key to get in.” 

“Human connection can help every sort of struggle” 

If anyone would like to reach me I’d love to help out! 
anonymouslyhappy111@gmail.com

Break free the easy way using the self-talk method!
https://guardyoureyes.com/forum/4-On-the-Way-to-90-Days/378128-Captain--Shtarkemotionals-Secret90Day-Challenge

Check out this thread with packed Insight for every person at every stage! 
https://guardyoureyes.com/forum/1-Break-Free/376994-%E2%80%9CShtark%E2%80%9D-insight-that-may-make-you-%E2%80%9Cemotional%E2%80%9D-%29

Re: Boyfriend-girlfriend relationship 02 Dec 2020 17:28 #358104

Yes it’s unreal .. 2 super frum families and 2 SUPER frum people!
“Distancing and removing triggers is only bringing the door closer..Changing the insides and our nature is the key to get in.” 

“Human connection can help every sort of struggle” 

If anyone would like to reach me I’d love to help out! 
anonymouslyhappy111@gmail.com

Break free the easy way using the self-talk method!
https://guardyoureyes.com/forum/4-On-the-Way-to-90-Days/378128-Captain--Shtarkemotionals-Secret90Day-Challenge

Check out this thread with packed Insight for every person at every stage! 
https://guardyoureyes.com/forum/1-Break-Free/376994-%E2%80%9CShtark%E2%80%9D-insight-that-may-make-you-%E2%80%9Cemotional%E2%80%9D-%29

Re: Boyfriend-girlfriend relationship 02 Dec 2020 17:35 #358106

  • yuyu
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Shtarkandemotional wrote on 02 Dec 2020 17:28:
Yes it’s unreal .. 2 super frum families and 2 SUPER frum people!

It’s not that unreal, as you see some guys here relate to you.

Btw, Is anyone aware of the relationship, besides you and her?
What does a GUN and LUST have in common? 
Remove the trigger, you remove their power. 
Last Edit: 02 Dec 2020 17:37 by yuyu.

Re: Boyfriend-girlfriend relationship 02 Dec 2020 17:38 #358108

Firstly I would like to thank YOU.. you seemed like you understood the situation very well... the problem is I tried taking breaks and breaking it off it just doesn’t work... we both can’t stay strong.. simply because we know in 2 years it’s such a strong possibility for marriage bezH! Nothing will change in my mind to the effect of in 2 years there’s a chance and once in 2 years there’s a chance it’s hard to stick to the break... I cried immensely many weeks all of rosh hashana I cried on my couch... was crying unbelievably on rosh hashanah in shul... then again on Yom Kippur... it was hard and intense... so it’s hard to try again especially after seeing it fail! But maybe now with the support here and being in touch with a Rav and an open yeshiva... the break will be easier to hold on too... I’m not looking to heal the relationship I feel it has a tremendous amount of potential... I’m looking to have a successful break bezH where I can learn and focus and shteig for the time being until it’s time to revisit the idea.. I just feel like it’s so hard but I remember at one point getting used to the idea of not being in touch so much in the beginning it was really very painful but then slowly it got easier but I just feel like it’s such a waste when after you fall right back into the hole... but maybe it’s not maybe I’ll gain many days of shteiging... but I’m not sure cuz it takes a few weeks to feel better a LITTLE just to start functioning like a mench... so it’s tearing me up! Cuz I know it’s not right for now but I just don’t know what’s the other route to take any suggestions anyone?
“Distancing and removing triggers is only bringing the door closer..Changing the insides and our nature is the key to get in.” 

“Human connection can help every sort of struggle” 

If anyone would like to reach me I’d love to help out! 
anonymouslyhappy111@gmail.com

Break free the easy way using the self-talk method!
https://guardyoureyes.com/forum/4-On-the-Way-to-90-Days/378128-Captain--Shtarkemotionals-Secret90Day-Challenge

Check out this thread with packed Insight for every person at every stage! 
https://guardyoureyes.com/forum/1-Break-Free/376994-%E2%80%9CShtark%E2%80%9D-insight-that-may-make-you-%E2%80%9Cemotional%E2%80%9D-%29

Re: Boyfriend-girlfriend relationship 02 Dec 2020 17:59 #358114

Youngster wrote on 02 Dec 2020 15:35:
Can I ask you a few questions?
1) do tou feel that without her you dont have why to live for?
2) do you ask her before making a decision on everything?
3) is it very important for you that you agree on almost everything?
4) do you need her in order to be happy? 
5) do you think about her, what she would think, do, approve of, when you do stuff that has nothing to do with her?
6) do you feel you havto share EVERYTHING with her?
7) do you need her approval on everything you do in order to feel good?
8) do you have mixed feelings while answering those questions, trying to figure out out what the right answer should be in order to say that this is indeed a great match, or trying to make excuses why it really is good???
Be honest with yourself...

sometimes I find I want to share stuff with her but I don’t feel I Hvto tell HER EVERYTHING!! Sometimes I think about what she would think about something... and sometimes I’m feeling down and talking to her makes me feel better at times bh (being honest) everything else is a no. 
“Distancing and removing triggers is only bringing the door closer..Changing the insides and our nature is the key to get in.” 

“Human connection can help every sort of struggle” 

If anyone would like to reach me I’d love to help out! 
anonymouslyhappy111@gmail.com

Break free the easy way using the self-talk method!
https://guardyoureyes.com/forum/4-On-the-Way-to-90-Days/378128-Captain--Shtarkemotionals-Secret90Day-Challenge

Check out this thread with packed Insight for every person at every stage! 
https://guardyoureyes.com/forum/1-Break-Free/376994-%E2%80%9CShtark%E2%80%9D-insight-that-may-make-you-%E2%80%9Cemotional%E2%80%9D-%29
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