cordnoy wrote on 04 Jan 2018 16:18:

Don't forget, cordnoy is a moderator in the spouse forum.. Your wife is telling him much more than she tells you

Just to stress again: in general, the wife should not be the husband's shomer.

My experience is that I didn't even know that my wife didn't trust me until my sponsor told me. How he knew when he didn't even know her much at all is a question that I won't now spend any time answering, but it goes to the awareness that people who are living as sober men have. I didn't believe him but I took it as true because he is my sponsor and has a lot more sobriety than me. Btw it makes no difference if he was right or wrong, I listen to him because that is surrender. Surrender is the essence of maintaining long term sobriety for an addict like me. Many people never accept that and don't really get how the program of AA/SA works. The more sober and aware that I became the more I realized that she in fact does not trust me. It is much better after 4 years of AA sobriety and going on 3 years of SA sobriety but she still does not trust me and I can see that more and more, as I become healthier and less self-centered. Self-centeredness is another big impediment to program and sobriety and may be the number one reason people on this site and many people in SA don't get sober.  The way I gain trust with my wife, is to keep my side of the street clean and do the right thing. Communication is key as well. One thing I do is call her and check in and let her know what I'm doing, even if I think she already knows. One thing for sure, especially in early early sobriety is that I don't try to figure out what she needs to gain my trust. I just do what I'm supposed to do and be where I'm supposed to be. I didn't even know that she didn't trust me and now suddenly I know what to do to get her to trust me?! Plus that's just fake anyway. I have to do for myself. If I'm doing for her than that's a contingent sobriety and she knows that. She knows that the second I think acting out is more important than gaining her trust, then I will act out. Also when I do things with the goal of gaining her trust that may just be manipulating her for my own sake. Just look at the sentence itself "I will do X to get her to trust me." Manipulation. How about I just aim to be a trustworthy person and she will slowly come to trust me. Addicts want to be in control. I have to let go of controlling outcomes in order to stay sober. 

And with the trust issue. It builds with time more and stronger. he wife wont trust the husband on everything everyday, but trust is something that builds with time, so is the extreme mistrust dissipating with time. Now there maybe that there wont be no extreme trust what so ever, for an extreme amount of time. or even for the rest of their life time, i guess this depends on the make up of the two people in the relationship. And the makeup of the Recovery strides the Husband is taking, and the awareness and the knowledge of the wife in her husbands life. It is a puzzle, but it is possible to build trust. and to make the relationship a living Mikdosh Me'at.

tzaddik212 wrote on 04 Jan 2018 17:52:

Trust build with time....if he's perfect.

Mistrust dissipates with time....if he's perfect.

When he's not perfect (in other words, he's basically normal), it very often snowballs to Hell. That's why therapists and specialists are needed.

This is not a simple world, and men like us make it even more difficult.

how long does it take to trust your self 
can she trust you before you do

well i guess it depends the kind of woman she is.

tzomah wrote on 04 Jan 2018 18:47:

I would never trust myself.
אל תאמין בעצמך עד יום מותך

I see by my self (I think it's not the same for everybody) that when I'm open with my wife she trusts me even if she knows I'm not perfect & I might fall, as long as she knows I'm committed to her & to recovery. When she feels I'm hiding something or she's not sure I share everything with her she won't trust me even if she wouldn't suspect anything.
Before she found out about my struggle she felt something is going on but she wasn't able to pin point what it is so she was very uncomfortable, but now that she knows everything & my behavior etc. started to make sense I feel that she trusts me  much more & she feels like we're going through this together (even though I'm not telling her much about my struggles & about my falls, but I'm open with her about this as well, she knows that (for now) it's not easy for me to discuss it with her too much)

Having her know about your struggles and your progress can increase the trust greatly. But setting her up as your prison guard is creating a situation where you are asking her to not trust you, and that can make her very uncomfortable because she may want to trust you but you are telling her to act like she can’t. 

My goal is not that my wife should trust me, I want she should know who I am & what I stand for. Yes, I want she should trust me but only where I'm trustable. I AM NOT TRUSTABLE WITH INTERNET. And she knows it. I asked her that she should make sure we have no open internet at home because when I'm weak (lusting) I am usually not strong enough to deal with it my self. I still don't think it's a good idea - at least for me - that my wife should be involved in my recovery (for now).
If she's not comfortable with it you shouldn't impose it on her & if you do I think it's called abuse.

lionking wrote on 05 Jan 2018 00:14:

that's got nothing to do with this thats talking to someone who has an עצמך telling him not to trust himself because he thinks he can and a little he probably can 
but a broken man drunk y"h what ever you want to call it already knows he can't trust himself don't need no chazal so then they probably were not talking to him

Markz wrote on 27 Dec 2017 01:08:


If kol olam nivra bishvili then K9 is one of the worse inventtions of all time.
This is especially true because of my attempts to be my own admin. This entailed, 1) writing long number passwords, writing it on a piece of paper, putting it in some obscure old sefer- one which most probably no one will use, on a top shelf in a shul that is locked outside of davening times. This also entailed, 2) retrieving the paper at a later time to change the settings to change the settings just a little..., and then a repeat of 1 and 2 and 1 and 2 and 1 and 2. 
It also fed into my peculiar (yes I meant to write that word) obsession of getting through filters.
But besides for the being my own admin part, I found it to be a pretty lousy filter (not even referring to tech-loop holes- just talking about the filter part). 
But there are other people in this world, so if it works it's free. 

BH i think tag is doing a great job keeping me out of trouble, i don't think they were established for people sitting LOOKING for shmutz,it was made for people that they shouldn't stumble.although they do a pretty good job for the first category too.

I found ways to fall with a k9 filter and with a tag filter. (All without knowing anything about programming etc.) But to fall with the tag filter I must be really crazy (and I am sometimes). I also know that I can search on google how to remove the k9 (maybe tag as well). I also found an app through which I can access ANY site without the filter detecting it. So I have to be my own shomer anyway. But when I have k9 & my wife has the code I can do anything & ask her anything.