according to my observation, the ones that said that religious practice didn't work for them are some people that been here for a long time and required more then that. I would thus follow your critic in the sense that a level 5(high stage) of compulsive addiction would need ALL the method possible to overcome the addiction. I do believe that without faith there would be close to no reasons to overcome this desire. I know tons of non-jews that consider mastubation/sex addiction as something healthy and natural and don't see how destructive it can be. Where it comes in play is for jews who are commanded who are sanctified from the nations and have to rise to a higher standard of living. For me the main reason to stop sexual addiction is because of my religion. This might not be the case for everyone but i believe that most frum jews see these acts as bad and that most non frum see them as good or at least say that to justify their actions.

I thus think that strengthening the reason that leads you to stop acting this way(being commanded by G-d to be holy) is necessary in order to overcome this barrier. I thus try to give my advice according to this perspective, i do agree as i stated many times that you might need more in addition to this but i have a difficult time to see it happening if one completely omits religious reasons from stoping. I do try to support others but i can't help myself to try and help others because i do get help by learning from other people's experience and want to support fellow jews as much as i can and i could only do this with what i have which i my personal experience. I thus think that while strengthening one's connection with Hashem might not be all that's required for some and prevention and acceptance is necessary i think everyone could benefit from having a better connection since love of good will push you to run away from fear. This is my perspective it might not be shared by some of you but i still think that people who haven't had the opportunity to really build their relationship through various religious practiced could gain tremendously by including them in their daily life just i like i did when i became religious.

Moudmack wrote on 22 Oct 2016 23:43:

My life experience almost completely contradicts yours. Oh well. Also, are you under the assumption that one can't live a spiritual life without religion?

Additionally, I have a hard time thinking that people could view sex addiction as healthy. Life for many sex addicts include cheating on partners, watching porn during work, staying up too late and being exhausted during the day, lying to others, and living a shame filled life. That's healthy!

I find it somewhat hard to see a life of spirituality since all that i find spiritual is in the torah. However i know that magic and spirits exist and their might be some reasons to seek spirituality yet i dont believe anything better then the torah as a religious person. It would be interesting to see how true your statement is. i would also like you to clarify, your life contradicts my argument or contradicts my lifestyle? or is the opposite of my lifestyle? regardless i feel like theirs a lot to talk about

So, let's say a guy doesn't go certain places and do certain things that non Jews and non-frum Jews consider bad (which, by the way, will end up happening to many if they don't get help). All he does is masturbate and watch porn. But, guess what, he'll end up (possibly) watching porn for hours a day, shirking responsibility, and altogether screwing up his life.
it seems VERY clear that you can't relate to this because you saw these activities as healthy, and then found out they were bad to your neshama, so you stopped. That's great! But, very few people that come here are like that. 
By the time most people sign up on GYE, they have tried mussar, Torah, etc. For those that this approach might be helpful, there is a section on this site called the Torah and chizuk approach. For everyone else, it is possibly counterproductive to focus on Torah and mussar, because it might make them feel like they are doing something about their problem, while not getting anywhere. 
So tell us your story, we LOVE it. But all I'm asking is that you don't tell someone you don't know that your way will solve their problem.

MMr moudmack,

Can you perhaps tell us your story in short? What hasn't worked for you and what has?

I also noticed that you use the word "most" several times. Where do you get your statistics from?

Thanks

I never said that, i said that it could help. also i didn't think it was healthy for me in my past, its just something i found normal and i enjoyed doing even if was destructive i didn't necessarily think i needed to stop because as destructive as it might be i still physically enjoyed doing it. When you dont live spiritualy, basically the only thing that matters is physical gratification. I think i will focus on that forum part since im mainly interested in torah but i find it hard to believe that books that guide you to overcome your struggles and increase your connection with hashem(mussar) wont help. It might not do it or be enough but not help at all? either you dont understand what you read or you just need more but it must have somewhat of an impact! It opens your eyes and guides you on ways to overcome your addiction to averah! I do take all of what everyone is saying into consideration but i feel like everyone here belittles what im saying such as increasing ones relationship to hashem and the power and influence that the torah can have to help change one's life. To say that torah is completely irrelevant? thats so surprising. Sure you might need to act and of course this is part of the instructions given in those sefarim and it's true that some people might need a more serious treatment. I would like to know what motivates most of you to stop acting out sexually? is it because of the hours waste? is it because of the loss of money? inability in your relationship? For me it's definitely my relationship with Hashem that provides me the motivation to stop, i assume that most of the jews wishing to stop will answer similarly but i might be wrong when it comes to some of the pioneers or maybe i might be completely wrong, i don't know. I feel like it's hard to tell. Please let me know your motivation to fight the Yetser ha rah!

I did tell my story, what more would you like me to elaborate? I used to masturbate since im 12 all the way to 20. I then started a serious relationship with a non-jewish girl and had sex on a daily basis even multiple times a day. I didnt stop mastubation in the meantime.

I then got a very strong experience that i have a hard time explaining where i felt a supernatural connection with hashem and believed i was receiving a message from a higher being. I didnt know if the G-d of israel was the real G-d so I did some soul searching and religion searching until i came to the conclusion, realization that Judaism is the truth by disproving(long process) other religions and faith system. I worked day and night to find the source of this feeling, this lasted 3 weeks and started on yom kippur I then did a 180 degree change and became religious from knowing close to 0.

I now have stoped masturbation for more then 2 years, I fell to my lust and watched some porn but was able to overcome the point of actually masturbating b'h. I had various nocturnal emission, i had some dreams that i couldnt control, really freaky things where i had women(demonic forms) coming and agressing me in my sleep but in one of my dreams i was able to overcome this. (dont ask how it was freaky) I was then able to control myself more and never had those dreams again but still had lust issues that I've been fighting.

I now want to overcome this obstacle and separate myself a lot from the tumah of the yetser ha rah. So i came on this site and got chizuk from other peoples story and i try to share what has worked for me in general and surprisingly getting a lot of ''you dont understand me'' which is a surprise for me since ive been addicted to sex for more then 10 years of my life. Most of what i just said has only been shared with the closest people in my life but for some reason the fact that this is anonymous helps me share my story since it might help people and even if some will not believe or not relate or label me crazy I have nothing to lose. If you have more questions, more specific please don't be shy ill answer what i can, id also like to know some of your stories! if theirs a link please let me know or message share w/e u prefer. Thank you.

Regarding the use of ''most'' its in relation with the experiences i had in my life. It's def not representative to the world as i havent met the world but i met many jews and this use of word is based on my assumptions to what ive been exposed to. I also see that people use the word ''most'' or ''all'' a lot and dont bring a single proof to their statistic or assumptions so ill answer with the same question as you to all who have used this word.

Dov" wrote:

Markz wrote on 23 Oct 2016 03:31:

Wow wow wow, so powerful! 

Here's another quote from Dov in that same thread. I bolded one sentence that I think is very relevant here...

Very interesting post. I don't feel like it disproves anything I said though. It's great to see that theirs tools available to us to overcome our desires but denying the impact that torah can have is for me showing ungratefulness since for many jews to my experience/observations sex addiction is only seen as something bad through the torah.

Repentance is a also a core concept in the torah and if you believe that you can do teshuva without placing barriers to avoid repeating the sin then you have never made teshuva a day in your life. It's very possible that all those religious people didn't follow the torah properly and fell into sin, once they did they didn't change their way and fell into addiction and once your addicted you need a lot to get out of this mess. I wouldn't blame the torah for my failure, i would blame my inability to apply the torah and my failure to overcome my desires or on a personal level the fact that i wasn't born in a torah house and was exposed to sexuality since i was a child and became an addict very early in my life.

If it wasn't for Torah I would have never changed my ways. No one would ever do any of these rehabilitation processes if it wasn't because they learned that this behavior is bad and i think most understand that this is bad through torah observance which leads to all the other steps to recovery. Even if you want to put other religions into the factor they might also learn it from our torah without them even knowing it but that's a different subject. Im happy that meetings work for many of you. Whatever works i just hope that all of us will be able to overcome our negative traits and desire to become holier people. Kol ha kavod to all of you warriors who fight this battle no matter the tool that works for you. I really applaud you and feel very inspired by what I've been reading here.

One of the difficulties on GYE is that we are a mix of addicts and non-addicts. To make it worse many of the addicts don't realise it and many of the non-addicts keep referring to themselves as addicts because they don't really understands the distinction. Some use the 'sin model' and other use the 'disease model'.

So sometimes wires get crossed.

What I would say is keep on trying what you think will work for you, just bear in mind that if, over time, it becomes apparent that it's not working, keep an open mind to the possibility that other methods could actually be better suited to you.

Mr MDM I must commend you - you're doing great KUTGW!!
markz wrote on 09 Mar 2016 03:43:


What do you see here?

That I mentioned the same sentiment regarding Torah that you have.

So, yes, Torah is what compelled me to get Lust under control and was the driving force for me to login and join GYE TRUCKING

However it's not been the solution for me, even though I'm not an addict. I have been sober BH since starting GYE 14 month ago, and have never seen anyone in these forums getting sober with more Torah observance / learning, which is why none of us have recommended that to others for their recovery

The main point is this:
From my understanding, this website is designed for religious Jews, although we invite all nations of the world too. Most Many religious Jews that join GYE are doing so because of Torah observance. It's therefore pointless after they logon, to tell them they need more. They need something different than 'more observance / learning' to get to sobriety, even if they are not addicts.

Also it can turn them off GYE if they see things that don't work for them being bantered about on GYE as recommendations for them - on the Forum or the Chatroom. We must maximize the small opportunities we have to help our brothers with things that work

My 2 cents

In my experience, observing things that the torah tells us to do, helped me not to fall more than learning torah itself.

One example is the mitzvah of tzitzis, the torah clearly states that seeing your tzitzis will help you not to go after your eyes and hearts.

I can't talk for anyone else, especially since I never considered myself addicted, but I was very deep into shmutz and these things really helped me get back on track.

But then again, this wasn't the only things I  did, I also saw a therapist on reg basis for almost 2 years....

Point is, everyone is different in his fight and what works for him, what brings us together is not the solutions but rather the fact that we're all trying our best to fight this battle.

I highly agree with the previous three posts, i really learned a lot from reading things here and it has helped me a lot in guiding other in my life in the short time ive been here. For exemple i was able to guide my younger sister get out of a unhealthy relationship she has been for many months where she left religious practice. She now shows a deeper unerstanding of things and wants to better herself even regarding torah on a personal perspective. I would thus like to thank you. I realise that my approach might not be enough and i should try helping people with more then recommending torah study and also propose things that i saw worked for others here. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts this is very helpful, coming here really helped me seeing things for a perspective that allows me to really walk to path ive been wanting to walk. I just hope it'll keep being the case! 

@YidfromMonsey maybe learning about the mitvah of tsitsit might help you grow a connection with this mitvah and in turn will allow it to have a more significant effect on you! (im telling this to myself just as much and im not saying your not doing that but i feel like learning leads to applying so they are both necessary like rabbi akiva said)

@MArkz thank you so much, you've really been pushing me to probe my approach and in my eyes your 2 cents are worth a lot more then 2 cents, more like millions and i agree 100%.

@watson ill keep it in mind, i hope i wont be needing more but being here really opened my eyes to the options to fight the yetser ha rah and already talking about it with honest people is a tremendous help.