Hi, I am a single male with mental health issues on medications.  The medications have made it increasingly difficult for me to remain frum for the most part since it is difficult for me to daven and learn Torah now.  Many years ago before I was on meds etc. I used to be a baal teshuva and daven and learn Torah for many hours each day with much feeling.  I have lost most of my feeling for it.

I am trying to avoid spilling seed since the shulchan aruch says that it is so bad and one of the worst sins in the Torah etc., however there are some teachings from Chabad and Breslov (I have respect for both) that lead me to think that maybe it is expected that I should sin sometimes.

In Chabad the Lubavitcher Rebbe sometimes advised people on this topic to 'remove their mind' from the subject and in this way to hope that with time the situation would improve.

In a Breslov booklet that I have it says in the name of Rebbe Nachman that a person must have many ascents and descents in their service of Hashem.  It also says that Hashem prefers our service to Him with the yetzer hara over 1000 years of service without a yetzer hara.

I also spoke about this with a Rabbi in our community who is Litvak and his expectation seemed to be that most people are not perfect in this area - unfortunately? - all of the above 3 sources lead me to believe that maybe it is expected by Hashem that a person fail sometimes.  Even though the shulchan aruch says it is so bad.

Anyone have any comments or suggestions?  thanks.

Welcome, welcome. Maybe check around the site and see what worked for others. 

Hatzlacha.

Hi and welcome.
I too struggle with mental issues and take medication. I too have difficulty with concentration.

I'd like to comment on the points you bring up about sinning being something normal and even expected. 
I have often thought along those same lines. Looking back at my process in this area, it seems pretty clear that my "Bechirah" was pretty limited starting out. I used to feel very resentful towards G-D for challenging me with something so difficult, which I saw no way to succeed in. 
It's an interesting thought, and I don't think I've ever really come to definite conclusions. 

But what I have learned, is that one I've acquired certain tools, I can choose to do the right thing. Now that I've gone through the process that I have, and have internalized and experienced certain things, I am responsible to implement those tools and that knowledge. 
So regardless of whether I had a choice back in the day, the pain that I went through was enough to motivate me to get help. And today, I no longer have to go and act out. In fact, I am clean for over 3 years.
I think that what we can clearly say, is that Hashem wants us to grow and to come close to him, and that this process will help with that.
I can also say from my experience, that getting better in this area, which is the core of my struggles, has proven to be very healing in other areas as well, including mental health. 

B'hatzlacha, and I hope to hear more from you!

Thanks for your comments.  When I think about it a bit more - when the Lubavitcher Rebbe told people to "remove their mind" from the issue, he was probably talking to people who were at the time overwhelmed by their yetzer hara, which is not neccesarily the case with me.  The medications that I take have taken away my appetite for food almost entirely, and my desire for sexuality has also been significantly reduced.  I think that sometimes I allow myself to go down this road of looking at immodest things and then spilling seed, because I don't want to be like a living dead, who has no yetzer hara (almost) and no involvement with sexuality.  Maybe that is what Hashem wants from me?  As I mentioned before I read in the name of Rebbe Nachman that it is more desireable for Hashem to have one serve Him with a yetzer hara than to serve 1000 years without a yetzer.  On the other hand Rebbe Nachman also said that for 15 minutes of pleasure some people are willing to forego their life in this world and in the world to come R'L.  That doesn't sound too good.  I guess I am a bit confused.

Can you share which mess you take? Most of them increase appetite so I'm curious what's working that you don't have an appetite.

invega and celexa

Welcome, and I wish you a full recovery in all aspects of life.

Don't get me wrong, but I would like to share a bit from my own experience.
Your saying that once you were more frum, learned more torha and alike, and it might even be true. But it might also be that hashem has much much more naches from one overcoming his sexual urges, even if its only porn or spilling seeds, then one learning the entire day.

It took me time, but I came to understand that I need to become clean from lust, not because I'm a yid, and not because it's an aveira...... Just because I want to be a mench, a good father, a stable husband, and to be able live a life without fear, without hiding and being afraid that one day I might get caught.

So don't blame your med's, just do your best cause that what counts.

Welcome!  I'm not sure why having medication that makes it hard to daven or learn makes it difficult to remain frum.  If someone has a broken arm and can't wear tefillin, he can still be frum.

Trying to rationalize that masturbation is not so bad is a bad idea.  The yetzer hora tells us it's not so bad, then we fall, then he makes us feel guilty.  We need the opposite approach.  It's very BAD!  If we falter Chas V'sholom, then we say, it happends sometimes, I'm not a rasha.  I will pick myself up and continue.   I won't get depressed because that will just lead to more falling.

That is the attitude I would recommend.

I wish you much hatzlacha in your struggles.

Yup 

Also "Rebbe Nachman that it is more desireable for Hashem to have one serve Him with a yetzer hara than to serve 1000 years without a yetzer"

Reb Nachman did not mean being a slave to the Yetzer hara. The Yetzer hara heard what Reb Nachman said and confused you...

gibbor120 wrote on 03 Aug 2016 18:58:

I beg to differ. For some the attitude above may work, not for all. For me it didn't. The more "bad" it was, the more weight it carried. I don't view masturbation as bad anymore. But I have a disease that doesn't deal so well with it and it's very unhealthy for me to masturbate. That's it though. 

notsofrum wrote on 03 Aug 2016 03:17:

Everyone is, starting out. 
You might want to focus on taking actions at this point, and analyze less. Actions will help you, analysis will not. Don't worry about whether Aveiros are necessary or not, or whether your Avoda is on a high Madreiga or not. I didn't get sobriety that way, and neither will you. I started out by taking actions that helped - GYE, Literature, 12 steps, phone calls, etc. And I got sobriety and recovery. 
​And I find that all of those old questions and dilemmas don't matter as much. And when they do, I think about them and work something out, BE"H. But 3 years ago, my "thinker" wasn't quite working well, certainly not in this area. All I did was go around in circles.  So do yourself a favor, conserve your mental energy, and get going with those actions​ that will help, and be the right thing to do L'kuley Alma.

I tried speaking with a mentor through this website on the phone once a week, but it didn't work out so well.  As things are now, I am refraining from sinning in this aveira most of the time.  I also just signed up for the gye mailing list again, though I don't usually like to read so many emails, in response to your suggestion.

Welcome to GYE!I would like to comment on the idea of "hesech hadaa" (removing your mind from it). The Rebbe didn't mean that we should continue to masturbate (that's against Halacha and there's no two ways about that), rather that the way to stop masturbating is to forget about it. And in truth even in SA speak about no letting you addiction become the center of your life (even recovery-it's the same thing). If your mind is on it the whole time, then you will never get away from it. Btw the Rebbe also gave this advice to people who had questions about Emunah-faith; this seems to be the Rebbe's approach (and really Chassidus in general) that giving importance and recognition to your struggles only makes it worse. You give a bigger foothold to the bad guys. 

I don't think his applies to an addict, but let's leave that for another time.

I wish you a lot of success whatever you do!

proudchabadnick wrote on 05 Aug 2016 02:43:

You wrote - even recovery-it's the same thing.
I must admit that being busy a whole day about my recovery makes me sick.
Not that P&M didn't !!! 

​My therapist once told me, recover but remember that you still have a family, wife, kids, work.
Was he right?

Obviously neither Chabad or Breslov would suggest going against the shulchan aruch, so I was obviously misinterpreting the teachings that I spoke of before in my confusion.  sorry about that.