Due to a recent discussion on the forum, I'd like to hear what the masses think about viewing pornography and masturbating. Is it selfish?
I am only looking for absolute answers.
If you're not sure, come back when you are sure.
If you think it depends on one's age, race, marital status, religion, etc....too bad.
Feel free to add your two cents in the comments.

100%

To my understanding Masturbation is selfishness. You want it now and with yourself.
Masturbation is just the opposite from sex which pleases the other and done when your wife wants.
(sometimes you want but you got to wait )

Porn is a drug, it's fantasy a dream a Bluf.
The only reason porn might be considered selfishness, is cause the only one who gets some good feeling out of porn is the one using (viewing) it.

Can we leave selfish disectionaries out of this thread please

Gevura Shebyesod wrote:

No its not selfish.

In order for one to be selfish they must harm others

Generally porn and masturbation don't harm others. However, it can manifest into a selfish act if one chooses to view porn while his baby is screaming for help.

I define life as being productive, which incorporates self love and brotherly love

Anything un-productive is selfishness
P and M are example (and often can be more than un-productive... But that's for a different vote...)

Rav Dessler in short:
chesed and brachah is the same."Taking" and curse are identical.
Lovin' oneself and takin' somethin' from the outside towards himself is the root of all troubles....jealousy, wars, stealin'.
Wherever you find people takin', you will find destruction and curse.
The opposite id the power of givin' - the power of chesed.
One who extends himself towards others or to his surroundin's (Reb Shimon Shkop on v'ahavta l'reiacha camocha - is extendin' the 'ani' to include others), or to do good with others....this is blessin'.
Canaan is 'arur,' for they are the biggest takers.
All desires are a toladah of the power of takin'.

Someone asked R' Bechofer regardin' masturbatin':

Is it any more "self-centered" than enjoying a chocolate?

His response:

In the abstract, not necessarily!

But the middah is magnified by the emotional activity to which it is attached...

From a Rabbi Melamed:

לעומת זאת, פגם הברית הוא, כשמשחיתים את יצר החיים הזה. במקום לקדש אותו באהבה שבין בני הזוג במצוות עונה ופרו ורבו, משחיתים אותו בתאווה אנוכית או בניאוף

The word 'anuchis' means 'selfish.'

And here is how he explains a Yerushalmi:

וכן בכל אופן שאינו באשתו (צדקת הצדיק קכא). מפני שיצר חיים זה נועד להרבות אהבה ודבקות בין בני הזוג, והמשחית אותו כדי לספק את יצרו, פוגם ביכולתו לאהוב את אשתו בדבקות.

So I voted that, "yes, it's selfish." I've learned that I have a finite amount of energy for intimate behavior (to use a euphemism). Aside from self gratification being a serious averia, it also drains that energy that should be channeled into bettering my marriage. In other words, I'm spending my wife's allowance of intimate energy on ridiculous drek. That's definitively selfish: she loses out, and I walk away disgustingly sated.

Of course, my lust addict mind is trying to rationalize ways that it's not selfish, even as I write this. But I've learned that when it comes to addiction, keeping it simple is usually the best way to go.

Selfish = An action that a person is doing for one self.

Selfish can sometimes be good, and sometimes bad. When one eats in order to live, he is being good selfish.

Masturbation is selfish in that one is killing future potential children. Very bad kind of selfish.

On the other hand, one who masturbates is not being selfish at all, since he is really not thinking about himself or the dire consequences he is causing for himself by masturbating.

Deep. Very deep. Some questions don't have a yes or no answer.

I think masturbation is selfish because it is an act that is completely for one's self. Even sex can be selfish if one is just doing it do get the feeling and using the opposite side as a lust object. Obviously sex is enjoyable for many, but it doesn't have to be lustful. Regardless, masturbation is selfish, there is no other side possible. I have found that masturbation was a prat of a big problem of narcissism that I have, I believe others here may have had a similar experience.

From the 12&12:
CREATION gave us instincts for a purpose. Without them we wouldn't be complete human beings. If men and women didn't exert themselves to be secure in their persons, made no effort to harvest food or construct shelter, there would be no survival. If they didn't reproduce, the earth wouldn't be populated. If there were no social instinct, if men cared nothing for the society of one another, there would be no society. So these desires—for the sex relation, for material and emotional security, and for companionship —are perfectly necessary and right, and surely God-given. Yet these instincts, so necessary for our existence, often far exceed their proper functions. Powerfully, blindly, many times subtly, they drive us, dominate us, and insist upon ruling our lives. Our desires for sex, for material and emotional security, and for an important place in society often tyrannize us. When thus out of joint, man's natural desires cause him great trouble, practically all the trouble there is. No human being, however good, is exempt from these troubles. Nearly every serious emotional problem can be seen as a case of misdirected instinct. When that happens, our great natural assets, the instincts, have turned into physical and mental liabilities.
......
let's have a closer look at what the basic problem is. Simple examples like the following take on a world of meaning when we think about them. Suppose a person places sex desire ahead of everything else. In such a case, this imperious urge can destroy his chances for material and emotional security as well as his standing in the community. Another may develop such an obsession for financial security that he wants to do nothing but hoard money. Going to the extreme, he can become a miser, or even a recluse who denies himself both family and friends. Nor is the quest for security always expressed in terms of money. How frequently we see a frightened human being determined to depend completely upon a stronger person for guidance and protection. This weak one, failing to meet life's responsibilities with his own resources, never grows up. Disillusionment and helplessness are his lot. In time all his protectors either flee or die, and he is once more left alone and afraid. We have also seen men and women who go powermad, who devote themselves to attempting to rule their fellows. These people often throw to the winds every chance for legitimate security and a happy family life. Whenever a human being becomes a battleground for the instincts, there can be no peace. But that is not all of the danger. Every time a person imposes his instincts unreasonably upon others, unhappiness follows. If the pursuit of wealth tramples upon people who happen to be in the way, then anger, jealousy, and revenge are likely to be aroused. If sex runs riot, there is a similar uproar. Demands made upon other people for too much attention, protection, and love can only invite domination or revulsion in the protectors themselves—two emotions quite as unhealthy as the demands which evoked them. When an individual's desire for prestige becomes uncontrollable, whether in the sewing circle or at the international conference table, other people suffer and often revolt. This collision of instincts can produce anything from a cold snub t to a blazing revolution. In these ways we are set in conflict not only with ourselves, but with other people who have instincts, too.


What I took out of this, was that anything taken to the extreme, is harmful and selfish. And will wreak havoc on my life (and always has, I was just too blind to see it)

polar bear wrote:


I understand your point, but it's still wrong. Just because something is ultimately not good for us, doesn't render it unselfish.

I didn't say it was right, it's very wrong. The discussion point was rotating around whether it's selfish or not. As to the wrong aspect in the act of masturbation, I was waiting for the right/wrong vote.