After many tries to become sober from internet-related pornography, I truly start having questions concerning some matters.
Previously, I mean in the past eight years or so I thought that I really had it in my own hands. I thought that if I wopuld want to stop viewing this .... I would be able to. But lately somethinh starts ringing very true to me.
Most people here - I assume - are familiar with the famous quote (and I undoubtedly will quote it wrongly) "The man I am will not drink, but the man I was will drink and drink again."
Now my question is: Is it possible that one can be addicted to a particular behaviour like viewing porn, just like one would be addicted to alcohol or drugs?
I understand it really takes a titanian efffort to become sober from drugs or alcohol, but I never thought that viewing (or watching) porn would be as difficult to put aside. After trying many years to reach a ninety-day-count of sobriety I am at first of Yeush. I have tried so many times. But the Demons are pulling me mamish by my ears, eyes and peyos to open that accursed machine again. You dont have to start by me with filters. We have one. But my rotzon to the wrong thing is so overwhelming that I will definetly find a way to either get around it or make a fix somehow.
Even those times when I finally have a little of a streak which might carry my further. I will see something in the street that will excite me and pull me (as in a blind rage) to the gutter again.
Till now I thought that I am just a person with a somewhat weakened rotzon which gets a little bit too easily excited, but now I start sincerely doubting it. I am trying again to make some days (just before Rosh Hashoneh) one the ninety-day-chart. But here on the second day I am feeling as if fire is burning in me, compelling me to do the awfully wrong thing yet again.
If you say join the 13 step plan, been there, done that. Probably for many of you it does work! But as for me? mmmmmm, it hasn't been the redeeming angel.

So again my question:
Can internet-related pornography a real addiction, I mean such a one that the mind and functioning of the person become depended on it?

Thanks
ShmaYisroel

Welcome

You ask if an addiction is possible, yet you say you're addicted.

You ask if an addiction is possible, yet you have done the 13 steps. Firstly, there are 12; secondly, please elaborate.

Finally, there is help here, as long as one is willing.

B'hatzlachah

One of the things addicts have grown very accustomed to is immediate gratification. We all now where that plays a role in acting out, but we don't really think how it affects the rest of our lives. Addiction is a personality trait, a chemical condition, and is not relegated to only the objects of our addiction. We are also inclined to demand immediate gratification in other things, including recovery. We want to be sober right away, from day one, and walk the walk of a guy two years clean.

Imagine someone with 100 lbs to lose insisting on the same thing, that he be in Olympic shape after 1 week of dieting. Absurd? I'd say so. But why is addiction any different.

It feels different because there are some intangibles involved, especially with our issue. And there's a fine line between having a chemical dependency on something and just being lazy about stuff.

My point is, don't expect quick results with this (ask the guys who have made it years sober) and accept the ups and downs of a nonlinear process. Successful people in general are the ones who are able to get up after a fall and keep on going, not the ones who never fall.

It could be I am the only person on this site with this problem but I'll share it anyhow just in case. In my battle I have found that I am not really addicted to porn per say. I have a masterbation addiction. Porn and flitering with women were a tool used to feed my fantasizes and masterbation. At first I thought Ok we know masterbation is bad but lets start small. Lets start with the bigger worse averious. So I said no porn or flirting but its ok to be M"Z. But what happend was as long as I was M'Z I needed to feed that so I kept on falling. So i have to work on my M"z problem which of course stems from lust.If you share the same problem its possible that you have not attacked the root cause. (There are some who can hold out for days without M"Z but need to watch porn for relaxation. That was not me.)

Hi ShmaYisroel,

Lots of good advice already on this thread, and you raised a number of points in your opening post, so I only want to answer your summary question - can a person become dependent on porn?

Per dictionary.com the term dependence [dih-pen-duh ns] has a number of definitions. The two that are most relevant to your question are:

1. the state of relying on or needing someone or something for aid, support, or the like.
5. the state of being psychologically or physiologically dependent on a drug after a prolonged period of use.

If your meaning is the first definition, I think it's obvious that this is true about pornography as it can become a behavior pattern that becomes ingrained.

For the second definition, IMHO that is a medical question should be addressed to a qualified expert to determine if it is possible, and more importantly is it relevant to you.

However, most important of all, even if the answer is yes it is possible and yes it is relevant to you, that does not mean that there is no hope as there are tools available to remove unhealthy dependencies. Discovering those tools and applying them would probably be what the RBS"O would want you to invest your efforts in, and would give you a better quality of life, i.e. Olam Haba and Olam Hazeh.
Sorry I don't have more specifics, but you're definitely in a good place to work on it.

Hatzlacha Rabah.

I don't understand the complicated answers. Yes, you can be addicted to porn. I know of people who are also in NA and AA, with extensive sobriety in both, but SA they don't. they say that sexual sobriety is the hardest thing for them to overcome. it is commonly accepted amongst therapists that there is internet and porn addiction.

you seem to be saying (in a round about way) that you are powerless over your addiction, is that true?

i also want to reiterate cordy's question about "been there done that" in terms of the (13?) 12 steps. as far as i know, the 12 steps is a way of life, there is no "been there done that". what do you mean?

Sholom Reb Cordnoy,

Thank you for replying to my post. You wrote:
. What is an auction? It might be that English is not my mothertongue, so sometimes I miss a nuance which other native English speakers would understand.

Regarding the 12 steps. I said been there, done that. What I meant too say is that I have been working together with a friend of mine. He took me step by step through the twelve steps. We read the AA and SA-books. But as time was going on I started understanding that the twelve steps are a way of life. I wasn't and probably still not ready to adopt yet another way of thinking. It was a culture which (although not enitrely foreign) proffers its own philosophy and vocabulary.
After making life-altering changes in my life too yet change again would be forbidding. Of course you are going to counter that being an addict and a slave to lust is not a very well alternative. You are obviously right at that. As we all know that rav Twerski Shlitah was asked if he thought that the 12-steps were a Jewish thing, he answered that addiction of whichever kind is certainly unjewish.

So you might ask: So hat is stopping you?
Well maybe it is my ADHD, or the debilatating disease I am living with which leaves me very little energy to do anything constructive in life. It might be my (wrong) attitude. It might be my lack of cheshek to try it yet again. And it might very well be fear.
So why don't I fear heaven enough and have some proper Yiras Shomayim? Well that is a very good one. Because up to a few days ago I didn't think I could not handle it. (How is that for a first of the twelve steps?) I really thought that although everything I was still in control of myself. I always used to say that stopping is easy. But to "stay stopped" is really where the difficulties start. I never wanted to give in and say that it is beyond my control. But the wall is slowely crumbling down. I guess, I would have to work on accepting that I am a slave to my desires.

Okay thus far, I hope that I answered the questions on my post and I thank everybody for responding.

ShmaYisroel

Hye shma Yisroel, you write "So why don't I fear heaven enough and have some proper Yiras Shomayim?"

Its not true. I think you do fear shomiam, you just have an addiction. Thats par of the powerless point. You yourself admit that you tried staying stopped but couldn't. Trying to stay stopped means you do have yiras shomiam. You couldn't because its out of your control.

Re beyond my control well if you look at it as a frum jew I think it makes the concept easier. We all know to a certian degree what chazal tell us that the yetzer is misgabr every day and if not for hashem's help we would all fall. Its all of the yomim noriam davening that hashem does not want us to fall. Henceforth, lust which is an addictive averia its even more so.

My apologies.
I use the swiping technology from phone and sometimes I forget to check what came out.
I edited my post above.

My second apology is that you ask many questions and answer some of them yourself, so I'm not sure where we are holding.

My head can only address one or two at a time.

B'hatzlachah to you.

"Hey Man", I takin' over the lead from 9494 with 393 posts.
Listen Jew (ShmaYisroel) you gotta reconize that if ye take one liddle step for mankind you on the way to all 12 and you cant deny bro what you said above and confessed "How is that for a first of the twelve steps?". Cool i'm with you! keep it up!!

BS"D

Sholom Reb 9494,

Thanks for your response to my post. What can I tell you? Not to take the full dive in the twelve steps? Well, that is one problem, I don't like to do hal;f work anyways. But just in Avoidos Hashem I guess you have madreigas and madreigas. The amount one detaches from the heintige welt is the amount one will be able to become one with the Torah Hakedoisha. I am obviously not speaking from experience, but mimicing the heilige Masgichim and Roishei Yeshiva.
So what does it mean to bathe ones feet in the water of the twelve steps? I think I pretty much done that four years ago, when I worked on it every day with a friend of mine for 40 minutes. We did that for over a year. It might have been my immaturity (which is unfortunately still largely with me) but it didn't help very much. I stiil felt as if compelled to look at garbage. (I said "as if compelled" but if we trust the seforim Hakedoishim then that of course rings more true then anything else).
The immaturity that is till very much with me. If I think about my parents when they were my age now (35ish) then I truly have some people to look up to, and they are not even religious.
So this little dip is very unsatisfying for a perfectionist like me. On the other hand I am too scared to go into it somehow. Hoping that if I am enough Shokuk Batorah that it will make the breakthrough. Honestly I made a very good start and hope to go on. But nevertheless, the daily battle of going to the accursed machine (parnassah of course) is very difficult and painful.

Thanks

This is in answer to Shlomo24

Somewhere I guess I still want to belief that it is me who is in charge. So yeah.... the roundabout way is a bit of a mask which is crumbling down to the core of the message. I am clutching at my own last (detri)mental straws.
I hope that I can get out of here without twelve steps and just a good dose of Mussar and limud HaTorah.

ShmaYisroel wrote:


Those who know me (from my posts, calls and conversations) know that I am somewhat hesitant to label someone as 'addicted.' You, however, merely from your posts, might be a poster child for this. If you need me to quote the sections of your posts which brought me to this assumption, you can ask, although I think you might not need my assistance for that.

b'hatzlachah to you

What is a poster child? Again my English is not that good. Not a mothertongue English-speaker.

ShmaYisroel wrote:


Poster Child
A person who is an example of something.
Though Jerry was reckless, he somehow always prevailed due to dumb luck. When they say "Fortune favours the foolish", Jerry was the poster child.

post·er child
nounNORTH AMERICAN
a person or thing that epitomizes or represents a specified quality, cause, etc.
"the antiglobalization movement's poster child"