AlexEliezer wrote:


while I agree with your conclusions as to action steps, I do not agree to your explanation or dismissal of the Gemora, based upon logic. Lust addiction is connected to the yetzer hara somehow. It might not be how we should fight it, but it is there. The Gemora gives a statement as to what a person should do when his yetzer hara is pulling him in a certain direction. I do not think it is up to us to state that the Gemora was not referring to an "addict."

I agree as well that "mascheihu l'beis Hamedrash will probably not help many of us addicts, but I don't think we can say that the Gemora was not referrin' to us addicts.

IMHO, it is preferable to remain with a tzaruch iyun than to be dismissive of the words of Chazal. Believe me, I have a huge ego, but I wouldn't go that far.

b'hatzlachah

The role of the "yetzer hora" in addiction is complex. What is the yetzer hora? That is a complex topic. What is addiction? Another complex topic. Mix the two, and we have an even more complex topic. I'm not qualified to comment on it, but I've seen statements like, "addiction is an illness (another term that begs some definition) not the yetzer hora". I don't like those statements, because I'm not sure that they are accurate.

What I think some people mean, is that dealing with addiction the same way a person deals with the yetzer hora via mussar, chizzuk etc., is not especially effective with an addiction. There is something much deeper going on, and it requires different methods to deal with it.

That I can swallow. That is supported by lots of evidence.

The problem with the pas besalo arguement, is that many addicts "use" their wives as a porn substitute, and it feeds their addiction even more. That has also been experienced by many here on GYE. That is not to say that bas besalo is untrue. Just that once our sexuality has been warped to a certain point, pas besalo can have the opposite affect.

Cordnoy,

I send you PM as to the rov's name. But I will tell you all that while I may be an anyomus commentor it was a very clear psak and from a fairly prominent though not yeshivish or chasidish rav.

Again if you are hiemish, chasidish or yeshivish you may not follow this rav's psak. But for the MO community or just black hat non yeshivish it's a fairly accepted psak

The gye community is all encompassing. All of the labels you mentioned above. How can a psak be a generally accepted one if the groups you mentioned above do not accept it? In today's day and age people say a lot of things in the name of many people and it was taken out of context or plain false. I am not saying that this is the case in this situation but I am a staunch believer that gye is not a place to advertise psakim.

[quote="AlexEliezer" post=260248]cordnoy wrote:

[quote="newaction" post=260304]AlexEliezer wrote:


With permission from AlexE. I understood in his words that what the Gmra is saying meaning to get married , will not constitute a solution for the addict's addiction. If the addict will work the steps and work himself, marrying could be used as another(psychological) tool you may call פת בסלו .
But i think we all agree that marriage per se will not be "the" solution.
Nobody with a little experience in this addiction will advise to somebody who asks him " hey i cant stop P and M , any advise ? " "oh yes just get married to somebody you like" .
The Talmud may be advising,on a different note , as a prevention ; for somebody who has not yet tasted טעם החטא , get married before you do.
In conclusion i see here from a gye perspective 'אלו ואלו דברי וכו and there is no machlokes.

I don't believe that this thread is a proper forum for Birth Control sheilos and Ad chaf dalet choidesh eivareha misparkin, etc.

Is the original Bachur that started this thread still around? Hi, I wish to welcome you.
Here's my opinion on this matter. I decided to take care of my issue and get engaged at age eighteen. Guess what, I didn't get engaged until four and a half years later. Whenever Hashem wants. So you can make a decision to date and not get engaged, or make a decision not to date, and somehow get forced into it. The objective for me is always to
DO THE NEXT RIGHT THING whatever it may be.
May Hashem be with you. Amen.

After reading through some GYE material I was getting vibes that one should not get married until the addiction is under control. Because the addiction is likely to ruin a marriage and it only gets harder after marriage. I went to my rebbe about this before I found out about GYE and he sent me to a professional for a lot of money. I therefore dont want to tell him that it didnt work.

Then I guess we'll have to do this sobriety thing.
Welcome aboard!

[quote="cordnoy" post=260241]




in my opinion, this is the best advice so far. עשה לך רב והסתלק מן הספק. AND not just for this shaila -- for the entire recovery process; having a real live non-anonymous rebbi provides real direction and actual accountability.
please understand that it is okay to be completely honest with someone worthy whom you trust. see that you are not alone, and what you are fighting is not a rare unheard of disease that only you have. understand that if your rebbi or whoever is truly a good person, not only will he not judge you, but admire you for swallowing your pride and looking to perfect and mature yourself (a feat that many are too arrogant or cowardly to attempt - and i was among them until i found gye -- hence in my signature "sobriety before ego").
AND - so what if the first attempt did not work? if this rebbi deserved your trust in the first place, he will understand. and if this person is not the right person to guide you, you will find someone who is.
ON A RELATED NOTE: something else i learned the hard way, but was פשוט here on gye to everyone - the only real chance we have at recovery is by being completely honest. with ourself, with hashem, and with the person we will eventually open up to. as RAJT says: we are only as sick as our secrets.

[quote="peloni almoni" post=260519]cordnoy wrote:


Yep!!

guarding613 wrote:
Perhaps you should tell him. How will he guide other people in the future if he doesn't get any feedback?