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Re: the yetzer hora keeps beating me 31 Mar 2016 18:52 #283087

  • yiraishamaim
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Unfortunately, the more I read and learn on this site, the in some ways worse I feel, in that I see no "cure" for this.  So many obviously deep deep thoughtful spiritual people get the cr-p kicked out of them on a daily basis by this, shall I call it an "affliction."  I am thinking the best we can do is control it, we can't conquer it.  I recall in a Gemara, (perhaps Brachos but not sure...my memory ain't what it was) that Chazal recommend that if you MUST sin, that you go to a different city or area to do so.  This is not condoning the sin, but a real recognition that some of us CANNOT control ourselves for all that long.  My case in point...hard fall, two weeks or so of cleanliness, and even now I can feel the Y"H-dik desires welling up in me...they are actually tangible, so much that I know absolutely that these tumahdik desires wait in the wings for my action.   Oy me haya lanu.  I am not optimistic, but will keep fighting.  That is the essence of the Yid, fighting the natural animalistic desires of man to raise ourselves up to a much higher "madrega."
It is just so challenging...all the time. And, as I mentioned, seems to be even MUCH worse now  that I am older .

Why is it that Hashem made the world such - that we constantly need him?  Why not make it that we reach a certain point and we are assured a certain amount of years to live, a certain amount of parnasa etc. This is the nature of Olam Hazeh.
I am sure you know the famous answer to the question why is it that the nachash was cursed to have his food changed in the way that it did if it indeed becomes easier for him then it is really a beracha? The answer given is that having something so easy is in fact a kellala because then the nachash need not come on to Hashem for assistance. In time this will cause a  distance/separation  from Hashem. Distance from Hashem is the greatest kellala.
Now it is true that this compulsion we have is at times overwhelming. However once there is a certain amount of consistent sobriety time a lot of the obsessive edge falls away. With an adherence to a proper program of recovery the mountain of this formidable task becomes much much less scary and frightening. To quote Dov on this very thread when talking about those doing well in recovery
"The common denominator is that lust fantasy does not rule them, neither does sex at home "
There are countless examples of people who are in recovery for years, living happy productive lives.
The fact that there is always a need to be on guard and work a proper program is really a beracha we should embrace not a reality we need to fear or stress over.

Re: the yetzer hora keeps beating me 31 Mar 2016 19:16 #283093

I am pretty much amazed as to how low i can go in my animal lust for food drink and women.  I will not give you the gory details, but jut look at my first post for pretty accurate details about my time spent last night. as an added bonus, I spent the morning at work looking at the social media pages of the twenty something woman I was chatting up all last night, until I finally revealed that I was married and then made a very quick exit from the bar when I thought things were going too far and I started feeling uncomfortable.  Thank G-d it seems that I still have a modicum  of a sense right and wrong left in me. Sorry for the details, but it helps to write things out to document my depravity. 

Re: the yetzer hora keeps beating me 31 Mar 2016 19:18 #283094

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"it helps to write things out to document my depravity"

My friend have you read the white book for instructions what to document?
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Re: the yetzer hora keeps beating me 31 Mar 2016 19:32 #283095

okay, I see what it is. SA White Book
Last Edit: 31 Mar 2016 19:35 by ataglance12345.

Re: the yetzer hora keeps beating me 31 Mar 2016 19:53 #283097

Hi Ata,
I feel your pain feeling compelled beyond control to do things you just don't want to do. I suffer from these overwhelming compulsions known as addictions but recently, with the help of a dear friend who is also an addict, I found a path that miraculously has drastically dulled the overwhelming compulsions to the level of a standard Y"H like to speak lashon hara. Tempting but very manageable. I got my life back. I hope you can detect the euphoria in my message because I have been on such a high recently as I am beginning to absorb the wonderful reality of living my life.
I always thought that even if I succeed in stopping my horrible behaviors it would be a constant uphill battle that would get harder and harder every day, known as "whiteknuckling" but in fact, I am really free of urges and not struggling at all.
I would be happy to share my experience with you if you wish. You can contact me at my email pischoshelmachat@gmail.com and we can trade emails or even have an anonymous telephone chat.
I wish you the same relief that I am so lucky to have been blessed with from HKB"H.
 

Re: the yetzer hora keeps beating me 31 Mar 2016 20:52 #283105

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ataglance12345 wrote on 31 Mar 2016 19:16:
I am pretty much amazed as to how low i can go in my animal lust for food drink and women.  I will not give you the gory details, but jut look at my first post for pretty accurate details about my time spent last night. as an added bonus, I spent the morning at work looking at the social media pages of the twenty something woman I was chatting up all last night, until I finally revealed that I was married and then made a very quick exit from the bar when I thought things were going too far and I started feeling uncomfortable.  Thank G-d it seems that I still have a modicum  of a sense right and wrong left in me. Sorry for the details, but it helps to write things out to document my depravity. 

yeah it feels hopeless at times. By right it really is. My friend- who on the forum has not looked back during a time of normalcy/sobriety(however brief it might be) and be amazed at how low he sunk.
That's the reason that sobriety with its simple wholesomeness is so euphoric.

Read pischoshelmachat"s message again  and feel the excitement jumping off your screen.
Don't assume we don't get you. We do. That's why we are here.
Been there.  Done some form of that, in my own insane way.


Stop putting your foot into the pool and being scared it's gonna be too cold if you go in.
There is real hope here. Yeah, it's miraculous, but it happens. no matter how low they sunk no matter that they may have multiple addictions.


 

Re: the yetzer hora keeps beating me 31 Mar 2016 21:29 #283107

Thank you, but how do I "go all in" instead of "putting my foot in the pool" as you say? 

Re: the yetzer hora keeps beating me 31 Mar 2016 21:32 #283108

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ataglance12345 wrote on 31 Mar 2016 19:16:
I am pretty much amazed as to how low i can go in my animal lust for food drink and women.  I will not give you the gory details, but jut look at my first post for pretty accurate details about my time spent last night. as an added bonus, I spent the morning at work looking at the social media pages of the twenty something woman I was chatting up all last night, until I finally revealed that I was married and then made a very quick exit from the bar when I thought things were going too far and I started feeling uncomfortable.  Thank G-d it seems that I still have a modicum  of a sense right and wrong left in me. Sorry for the details, but it helps to write things out to document my depravity. 


I don't know if you have to worry about the details; anyone who finds them triggering will let you know. But obviously use your discretion.

Just to clarify- what have you tried? If you're falling every few weeks, then perhaps you want to try something else. Therapy, twelve steps, whatever. It's not clear to me what you ARE doing at the moment.

Part of the question is also how much you really want to stop. Are you worried about the shame of going to a live meeting? You don't seem to be worried about the shame of the people who see you in the bars; why do you think the shame at a meeting will be worse?

When one looks at it as cancer, they'll do anything. Perhaps you don't see it that way yet.

Re: the yetzer hora keeps beating me 31 Mar 2016 21:48 #283111

Excellent point.  There is a local SA meeting near me, I may check it out.  Probably better for me is a therapy session one on one with an addiction type therapist.  

You are right, I am falling about every few weeks. 

Bad pattern. 
 

Re: the yetzer hora keeps beating me 31 Mar 2016 22:17 #283114

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ataglance12345 wrote on 31 Mar 2016 21:48:
Excellent point.  There is a local SA meeting near me, I may check it out.  Probably better for me is a therapy session one on one with an addiction type therapist.  

You are right, I am falling about every few weeks. 

Bad pattern.  


Therapy sounds good, 12 steps sounds good. Be open to whatever it takes; that's what I learned on the forum.

And I think don't dwell on how BAD it is; I think you know that already. Dwell on what you're going to DO about it.

Re: the yetzer hora keeps beating me 01 Apr 2016 02:32 #283147

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ataglance12345 wrote on 31 Mar 2016 21:29:
Thank you, but how do I "go all in" instead of "putting my foot in the pool" as you say? 

Working guy is guiding you well.
Have the attitude that you must get sober and that you are willing to do anything to achieve recovery.  As you move along in your journey you will find those things that work.
Good Luck.
 

Please chevray, read and respond! 12 May 2016 15:31 #287615

Me again.  Was involved in all the horrible behaviors last night.  Ho hum ho hum. This is not something that I do unknowingly or without intention or control.  I know EXACTLY what I am doing when I go to a bar after work, and I know EXACTLY how it will develop and end. 

I am a sinner and a rasha, pure and simple, during these times.  If folks were around to give me verbal warning I would be completely liable for all my sins per a beit din.  My punishments would include malkus for eating traife and also G-d forbid, May Hashem have mercy on me, Kares, for spilling seed, along with various other sins of a carnal nature. 

But, I am like a thief in the night, more afraid of what my family and society will think of me for my aveiros than what HKBH will think of me and do to me G-d Forbid. 

My hypocrisy is disgusting me.  

But I get such carnal pleasure out of eating these items and spilling seed in this fashion.  And that is really what this whole insanity is about.  I like it, I enjoy it, and therefore I do it.  Nice huh?

A great attitude for a frum Yid.  

Chevray, I beg of you to please daven for me, that Hashem should forgive me for my many many sins, and that I can control myself and my Yestzer Hora in a better fashion. 

Oy, me haya lanu. May HKBH please please have mercy on me and forgive me for my many sins. 

I look forward to some words of chizuk, and words of admonition.

I am going to read the Tikkun now.  I have it printed out and keep it handy, because I know I will need it again and again and again. 

 I will immerse in a mikvah  at the first opportunity.

I know, all I can say here is just a repetition of my many previous posts.  Just the same cycle of sin, guilt, begging for forgiveness, cleanliness for a short time, and then a repetition of all my garbage. 

It must be boring all of you, to keep reading about this time after time after time.

Oh well, back to work.

Again, chevray, please post, anything will be very appreciated.

I can take it, don't hold back. 




 

Re:Dov , Cordnoy, lay it on me! 12 May 2016 15:39 #287619

Dov, Cordnoy, I see you guys are on line.  Lay it on me.  Don't hold back.  I need to hear some words of chochmah, words of admonition, just some words from other people that struggle with this same garbage like I/we do.  It helps.  It may not change me or my behavior in the short or even long term, but it helps to "talk" about it.   

Re:Dov , Cordnoy, lay it on me! 12 May 2016 15:51 #287621

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May be you should start with stop drinking? If you're not an alcoholic it should be not hard. And if you are - well it's better to quit anyways.
But also not be surprised if you will continue acting out even without drinking.

Re:Dov , Cordnoy, lay it on me! 12 May 2016 16:12 #287624

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ataglance12345 wrote on 12 May 2016 15:39:
Dov, Cordnoy, I see you guys are on line.  Lay it on me.  Don't hold back.  I need to hear some words of chochmah, words of admonition, just some words from other people that struggle with this same garbage like I/we do.  It helps.  It may not change me or my behavior in the short or even long term, but it helps to "talk" about it.   

Perhaps even receiving admonishment and rebuke in your case may just be counter productive. Just another shrewd trick of the yetzer hara.  It will be a cheap rebuke and you'll feel that you received some justice but what then? The cycle continues...

Houston we got a real live probem here!

There are plenty of people here who know how to direct you so you can get help to begin recovery.
There is science and empirical evidence that shows what really works.

Daas Torah is behind the system. 

You have to make the decision to join and follow up.
Then there is HOPE.
Don't SETTLE for a slap on the wrist. Work a proper program and feel the success.
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