peloni almoni wrote:

D'Oh!

Gevura Shebyesod wrote:


I don't take Doh for an answer.

Just chill and have a D'Ohnut

Gevura Shebyesod wrote:


I doe no. I D'Ohnut want one.

Whether Doe or Dough or named after Mr Dow (like in the Dow Jones).

On יונתן there is no machlokes.

ויקרא שמו בישראל יונתן

מזל טוב !

which leg of a 3-legged stool is the most important?
1 - being honest
2 - humility/surrendering to a Higher Power
3 - group support

jack wrote:


You only have time for one?

Why settle for three legs?

jack wrote:


That's a great way of referring to it - a 3-legged stool. So you answered your own question. The 3-legged stool is completely dependant on each of the legs. If any of the legs is missing the stool won't stand. But each leg has a different function one holds from the right one from the left and one adjacent to the center(of the other 2). so...

1 - Being honest is the necessary mindset to facilitate the other 2 legs.
2 - Humility and surrender which includes kabolas ol malchus shomayim & ol Torah umuitzvos(the will of the higher power) is the actual job that you are doing.
3 - group support(or at least some other person/people) is the tool with which to work (leg 2) and to keep honest (leg 1)

You guys are too funny!

Regarding a three-legged stool, one of the brass 24hr-chips I carry in my pocket has these words on it:

Honesty, Openness, Willingness (HOW)

For me, Honesty isn't fully real till it is with another person. And the person must be one who already thinks they know me...but my admission clarifies to them full truth about myself.

Openness is a skill to learn - not merely a thing we do. That's why dramatically 'telling all' is not what it's about. It's about what happens afterward: establishing honest, safe relationships in which I can consistently stay open and honest about what's doing with me day after day without fear of being looked down on for my blemishes and mistakes.

Willingness is the precious hachno'oh that a man or woman has when we really are doing whatever it takes to get well for today. Things like abstinence from any sex with the spouse for a few months; admitting our problem to someone it affected or endangers; leaving an area we are unable to stay safe, even though it's embarrassing; not walking into our first real meeting while wearing a paper bag on my head or using my 'English' name (or middle name) there etc., day after day, after day...









OK now, back to the jokes!

Dov wrote:


If everything that my mind can grasp is utter foolishness and jokes, then I don't have the capacity to comprehend wise words from Dov either, so I guess there's no hope then.

it seems to me that 3 is a good number to use because pirke avos chose 3 that the world stands on. why didn't the mishna choose 613? it's not that they are not important. ch'v. it's that the mishna saw these three as being REALLY foundational. the others? important, of course, but the world wont fall apart if u dont have them.whereas these 3, torah, avodah, & gemilas chasodim are absoluitely necessary for the world to endure.
so also i am saying that in recovery not that the other ingredients are not important, but i have found that if these 3 are absent, the recovery will be extremely low-level, if at all.

also, we say that recovery is not religion-based.it is a medical issue, as opposed to a G-d issue or a Torah issue. but if that's true, why is G-d mentioned in the 12 steps? we should be addressing the doctor, or a psychologist, or a psychiatrist, or medical literature as a higher power!!! obviously, it IS religion-based.true or not true?

jack wrote:


addiction is a SPIRITUAL issue, not a religious one. there is a big difference. (for one thing, religion is easier to hide behind, bs, etc.)
i highly recommend you read the book "god of our understanding" by shais taub.

jack wrote:


your assumption is off base.

firstly, you say 'recovery,' and then you mention 12 steps.
There are many different methods of recovery.

Secondly, the steps are entirely based upon livin' a Godly life, buildin' a stronger connection with God. I don't know what you call religious, but that's what it's about.

Some might not view the sin or the disease or the addiction as a religious issue, but that I am stayin' far away from.