Shlomo24 wrote:


many have felt that it can be mind changin'.
This has worked for many.
the goal as well.
it, however, is not fool-proof like you mentioned.
But it does have merit, and separates the men from the boys in certain ways....in certain ways, but this not a rule at all.

Having reached 90 days then fallen; and reached 90 days and fallen again, I can confirm that the scheme has merit.
The second time, and the third time were easier. And I fell less frequently; I was that bit less controlled by the chains of this addiction than I had previously been.
Aim for the stars and you'll at least reach somewhere decent. Even if you have falls after reaching 90 days, you will have developed strengths that will make the battle easier, and will see you have less falls. Every bit of release from the addiction is a wonderful thing.

Perhaps we can separate 2 aspects of the addiction from each other: one being the underlying reasons behind the behavior, i.e., the stress, RID, OCD, ADHD, childhood trauma, whatever it is, and the other being the bad habits formed in the wake of those emotions, the behavior itself.
Many may find it helpful to break the habit while working on the underlying reasons, and perhaps this is where the 90 day chart helps many.
Without consistent effort regarding the addictive personality, though, no doubt one will easily fall back into the behaviors, or simply find other destructive ones to replace it.

my point is that once one reaches 90 days it does not mean that he can chill, he has to work just as hard as when he had 89 days of sobriety. if someone lets their guard down then they will find themselves acting out sooner or later.

shlomo613 wrote:


i hear, but who says it was due to your 90 days? maybe it had more had to do with your self awareness that you gained each time, maybe seeing what you needed to safeguard and what triggers you have. it also could've been that you realized what emotions make you want to medicate and dealt with them better then before. the break in addictive behavior makes sense, but why davka 90 days? who says that if you reached 89 days or 91 days the results would be different? obviously i am not arguing that breaking the pattern helps.

my main point is that i don't understand the 90 day milestone, i also think it lulls people into a false sense of security. unless it's proven that after "x" amount of days you're healed, i don't see the point in emphasizing 90 days. maybe it gives people a drive to achieve sobriety, but i don't like the scientific claims.

You're preachin to the choir. But, ppl are different, and some report some success, but I agree. I think it hurts a lot of people too.

I think that all those things you said as maybe being the cause of what helps are true. They come along with the 90 day journey.
Is there a difference between 89, 90 or 91? I couldn't say. But the RBSHO is looking down on this GYE oilam who are doing things of cosmic significance, and if this oilam have been koivei'a 90 days as a milestone, I am certain that Hashem endorses it and adopts it.

Let's not make 90 bigger than it is.

You're right

Hey Shlomo24,

You're right, but the 90 day chart wasn't made for p*** addicts. As we know, only the Steps or SA can help an addict. And yet GYE was designed to help all kinds of yidden with these issues (that is, even non-addicts). I'm sure there are guys out there that are not addicts, don't look at p***, but still get into MZ"L trouble from time to time. The 90 day chart is a perfect tool for such a person since it provides an ego incentive as you climb, and a $ penalty if you fall. For a non-addict, in 90 days he should be able to condition himself and be able to stay clean on his own after that. For an addict? That's another road to recovery entirely.

Yudi wrote:


i agree, but is that worth the risk of lulling others, (even non-SA-attenders), into a false sense of security?

Yudi wrote:
How do we know that?

gibbor120 wrote:


we don't. what we do know is that the 12 steps have been proven effective for addicts and there has been no solution as effective as the 12 steps, that doesn't mean that different things can't be effective. if one finds something that works for him then kol hakavod. sa does not recruit members, all members must come because they want to themselves. i take back the general "i agree" to yudi's post.

Yudi


Thanks guys, I misspoke and stand corrected. I must have written that post late at night from my cell phone. Sorry.

this week was my first week back in yeshiva. it's going well so far b"h, gr8 to be back. I had a really rough start to the week though, on thursday night i saw porn and i immediately became drunk as a skunk, the binge didn't stop until after tuesday. in the process i was with 2 anonymous guys that i found via a promiscuous service (don't wanna give ideas). i have never done anything close like that w/ anyone b4. it was like the bottom just completely fell open. to make things more complicated, the 2nd guy was a married frum guy, i felt much more comfortable with him then the guy before. also we were texting from thursday on and i felt like i had a relationship with him, and he liked me very much, which as many addicts know, the "connection" that had the "magic" is what we crave. i finally was able to block his contact and delete his number, but it was really hard, right b4 i did it he texted me "what's up, i miss you", i felt like i was pulling my heart out when i blocked him. thank god i was able to block him though, i would've been down that dark alley b4 i even knew it if i kept up the connection.

B"h doing well. It's great to be back in yeshiva, so far I have kept up my attendance pretty solidly too, I only missed one shiur so far. "Big Steps" as they say in french. Or English, sometimes, on tuesdays. sorry for that, i have adHey Donuts! I have been reading the big book almost daily, usually before bed. i think that it is helping. i personally like the literature aspect of it also, the writing style is very interesting and engaging, i also relate a lot to the works, #DUHBECAUSEIMANADDICT. actually the other day my father said "you seem much happier these days", it's good to see that other ppl can also see i am doing well. i texted my sponsor and he replied "god's grace #smallmiracles". i like that, #small miracles, has a good ring to it. also i am really bringing out to light things that need it, i am hitting the phone a lot. b"h i have become close with members of program (even though I am the younger then them by a good 10 years). also my sponsor is super cool and he has time to have long convos with me if i need it, #mysponsorissingle.

although i have been struggling with the god/hashem vs higher power thing. i have a skewewd version of god so my sponsor told me to "fire the SOB". which i did. so now i have a higher power that loves me. i call him (her?) higher power also, it's too early for me to call it god or hashem. mb in the future i will. in my heart i know that judaism is true and that hashem runs the world, but for now i can't use him as my higher power. too demanding and unloving for me, i feel that it's a give/take relationship with him, not unconditional love, which my higher power has for me. so now i think i am close to having a "higher power (god?) of my understanding".

bye.