The correct analogy here is not to a choleh. The correct analogy is someone who is a captive in a situation were he cant do mitzvos ex russia. It is permitted to be mechalel shabbos. A addict is in prison. If he acts out he is being put in the prison of his addiction.

I can take your call.  But, I think the responsible thing, where possible, is to set things up before Shabbos so that you won't have to call a Jewish person.

ur-a-jew wrote on 18 Nov 2010 20:58:

Frumfiend The star wrote on 18 Nov 2010 21:05:


I agree that there are numerous Halachic bases to permit this.  Two other grounds to be lenient are that we often permit a shvus d'shvus in a case of hefsed merubah, and in a case of bitul oneg Shabbos.  Losing sobriety is no less serious than a large monetary loss (indeed, it's much more serious), and would cause a major bitul of oneg Shabbos. 

Kedusha wrote on 18 Nov 2010 14:30:
OK, Reb Kedusha...you are hereby declared (in my echoey brain cell): A true Gentleman.

And I am a bit of a stinker.

May I bask in your tolerance of vandalism?

:-*

True story: Over 40 years ago, a Yeshiva bochur decided to go to medical school.  He was very nervous about the opposition he would face from his Roshei Yeshiva and fellow bochurim.  When the Ponovitcher Rav visited his Yeshiva, the bochur shared his dilemma.

The Ponovitcher Rav responded that a certain person had strung a wire over Niagara Falls (or some other dangerous location) and had successfully "walked the tightrope."  Had he asked anyone's advice beforehand, the response would have surely been "What, are you crazy?"  However, once he was successful, people had (begrudging) admiration for him.  "In your case too," said the Ponovitcher Rav, "people will not agree in advance with your decision to go to medical school.  However, if you succeed in become a physician, while remaining a strong Ben Torah, people will have nothing but respect for you."

I think it's the same regarding this issue.  If you ask a Rav whether you can use the phone on Shabbos (with a Shinuy) to avoid losing your sobriety, you might not get a clear Heter, to say the least.  However, if you tell that same Rav in the future how addicted you once were, but how through working the program and reaching out to others - even on Shabbos by phone, if necessary, you are now 10 years clean, I have no doubt that most Rabbanim would say - "Kol HaKavod - can I refer some of my Baal Habatim to you?"

Ever heard the expression "a kasha is treif"

Maybe - I'm not sure.  However, I'm getting the impression that this is not a Sheilah that should be asked: If you know you need to make the call, then just do it - no one will fault you for it.  But, if you're wishy washy about it, the answer will be "no."

bardichev wrote:


Kedusha wrote:


A nice thread for this motze shabbos

Oh oh oh here oh oh oh here oh oh oh
I ask myself what am I doing here?
Oh oh oh here oh oh oh here
And I can't wait till we can break up outta here....

Someone recently told me that in some circles they carry the big book with them in their pockets on Shabbos just in case they get overcome with lust.

רפואה שלימה

Cords, I hope you aren't under clouds of marijuana.

Shlomo24 wrote:
Guard your..........

























Gevura Shebyesod wrote:

Kedusha wrote:


I can't say that it's exactly similar, but I learned through the sugya with a very big posek in regard to a situation of being mechalel Shabbos to save yourself from doing other aveiros.

One of the main sources for this is the Gemara in Shabbos 4a that discusses whether a person himself can be עובר an איסור קל שלא לבא לידי איסור חמור. Then, the Gemara also talks about whether someone else can help them.

Two other sources to see are the Shulchan Aruch at the end of siman ש"א and at the end of ש״ז in Orach Chaim that discuss about saving someone else from issur.

Here is what I seem to have understood; not sure if the question here was for the person themselves, or even to help them.

Obviously, if we can consider it imminent pikuach nefesh, there is no question.

If it is not, then you get into the question of which issur is worse- and that would depend on how he's planning on acting out. If it is masturbation, Shabbos is more chamur )see the Shulchan Aruch Even Haezer siman כג where the ezer mikodesh there says issur kareis is worse than masturbation).

However, then you would get into the question of the fact that he will end up masurbating many times, and would only be mechalel one Shabbos. That is a question brought down in siman שכ"ח about feeding a choleh less of an issur kal or more of an issur chamur.

Then of course you have the possible heterim above of making it a shvus dshvus, treating electricity not as a deoraisa, etc. See siman שכ״ח סעיף י״ז for what a Jew can do for a choleh.

In regard to answering his call, there the sugya in Shabbos seems to make it dependent on whether the person you are trying to help was negligent and that is how they got into this in the first place.

Just some thoughts, obviously nothing Halacha lemaaseh. I would love to hear what a posek says. Will try to ask one this week.

I definitely think that these shailos should be asked to a posek. I know of many people who got heterim and I remember hearing a psak as to why the person SHOULD call, that he shouldn't feel guilty doing so. Different than what kedusha was saying.

I must say as a person who was in sa for quite some time.....
As a person who has had sponsors....
As a person who sponsors others.....

I think people are taking our disease way too extreme.
Yes, everyone should ask a posek, but until then, kindly learn hilchos shabbos.

And regarding marijuana, I think some posters here have been usin', for otherwise......