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Chaim's Oigen
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A platform of recovery for Jews who find themselves struggling with addictions to pornography, masturbation or other sexual problems. Post anonymously about your struggles without fear of anyone finding out who you are. Ask questions, post answers and be inspired! Get tips and guidance from the experts who moderate this forum, as well as from fellow strugglers.

TOPIC: Chaim's Oigen 2615 Views

Re: Chaim's Oigen 15 Nov 2024 17:35 #425178

  • BenHashemBH
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chaimoigen wrote on 15 Nov 2024 04:15:
Who Are The Heroes
By: Chaim Oigen

Thank your Reb Chaim!

To add another resource, please see the Michtav M'Eliyahu on Repentance. He analyzes the Ba'al Teshuva and The Tzaddik. 
:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!
Today is yesterday's tomorrow.
The yetzarim a person has the most trouble dealing with are his most powerful God-given tools for developing his potential and achieving shleimus.
It doesn't matter how big the number is, only that today it is going up by one.

Please feel free to reach out. I'd appreciate connecting with you (via GYE, email, or phone - whatever floats your boat)
A little about me: guardyoureyes.com/forum/19-Introduce-Yourself/412971-I-Want-to-Help-Others

Re: Chaim's Oigen 15 Nov 2024 18:10 #425180

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chaimoigen wrote on 15 Nov 2024 05:19:
“Losing Out. Or Not?”
By: Chaim Oigen 
This one was in my “Friday Night Blues” thread, in the BB Section.  But it’s really a universal Yesod, not limited to how to feel about “missing out” when the wife isn’t up for intimacy.

How many times are we compelled by the feeling that “I don’t want to lose this chance”, when the opportunity presents itself? A glance.. a stare… or more…. But am I really losing something? Does “Chapping Arein” an experience mean that I “got” something? Or is that just illusion?  Yes, pleasure is real, a feeling of pleasure. But when I really realize that I don’t have less when I passed up an experience, well - it changes the playing field and rules of the game.

At least it did for me. 

chaimoigen wrote on 03 Apr 2024 17:44:


While in the throes of sexual desire, there is sometimes a strong illusion that not to havefulfillment of this need, would be a loss. I feel that I would be losing out if I don’t have it.  This carries over with Shmiras Enayim too- If there’s something exiting to see and I won’t take advantage and miss it, there’s a feeling that I would be losing out. If my wife and I had planned to “go to sleep early” and then one of us got an important call and it got late and she was too tired - I realized that in the past I had felt like I lost an irreplaceable opportunity. And that feeling would sometimes cause me to get bent out of shape and put me in a bad mood. This is  actually  the Yesod of the “Friday Night Blues”. 

But I’m starting to feel differently now. I love being intimate with my wife. But if it doesn’t work out today,  there’s always next time. The point is this - If things between us are good overall (including the bedroom, which is important), then the individual times and experiences aren’t nearly as important as they feel like at the time. In fact, each individual experience probably isn’t so important at all, except for the fact that I want it, which in itself is not truly a matter of importance (except to the lower half of my body, who isn’t a Man Di’amar of such great importance). 

Having a healthy and happy bedroom life is an important part of marriage. Getting what I want at the time that I want it is not. Waiting a couple of weeks, at this stage in my life, while being frustrating, won’t inherently impact our relationship in any way. Unless I would make a big deal about it internally and externally, and send my wife on a guilt trip, and make my wants into a whole huge imperative.

Well, thankfully I choose not to do that today.

Thanks GYE. 
I think I’m seeing pretty clearly today. Feels good. ברוך ה!

מאן דבעי חיים


I recall this one from the FNB thread. And was actually just thinking about this when my filter went AWOL.

For years, unfiltered internet was an "opportunity" I had to grab. Maybe I could use some self-control and delay grabbing it, sometimes even until the point where the "opportunity" was "lost". But it was an opportunity.

You brought out how to deal with the "loss" in the context of intimacy. But (as your post makes clear) it's a foundational yesod that resonates throughout every angle of the struggle. It's not an opportunity

The way I've been trying to think about it recently is something like this. If I truly want to act out I could do so, whenever, wherever, and however. Oh this particular attractive woman or unfiltered device or whatever may not ever come by again. But I don't act out because of particular objects of desire. I act out because of life. 

So a particular situation isn't an opportunity or, indeed, a challenge.* It's a flavor of life. And the goal is just to live a life that doesn't need to have acting out as a part of it. 

So whether it's niddah issues, unfiltered internet, that girl walking by wearing just the right outfit, whatever. None of that is anything. The only significant factors in play are me and G-d. Everything else is just a distraction.

Not entirely sure I said this right, or even believe it, but I think you get the idea. There are no "opportunities" lost. There is only you.


*Obviously some situations are challenges. A day to day unfiltered computer or random lady ain't exactly aishes potiphar. It's just a facet of life that needs to be dealt with. You can take this attitude or leave it. I know many choose to look at each urge as a nisayon they overcome, and if that works for them it's awesome. I'm working on being a little less dramatic about my penis, to put it bluntly.

Re: Chaim's Oigen 21 Nov 2024 01:26 #425532

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What Lasts About Us Here
By: Chaim Oigen

I've been here a while now, BH. There's an ebb and flow to the forums, to the relationships. To the online life and community. And I was thinking today about what's real and what's just an illusion. Asking myself to define what constitutes a genuine relationship, and what is not.

Once upon a time, there was much talk about how these forums are enabling secrecy, which is toxic. I've written about how I disagree. The element of secrecy enables a guy to take the first plunge. Sure, there a lot of ways to misuse this space, like everything in life. But today, so many guys are using the forums as a first step that leads to further connection. Emails, talking on the phone, and eventually meeting. And even if they are not, baring and sharing the secret part of your soul with a friend, even if you'll never know his real name, is a genuine connection that transcends many in-person meetings that take place wearing all the masks and layers we put on in public.
Here's a post I wrote some time back...

chaimoigen wrote on 29 Nov 2023 00:31:
No man is an island.
Each of us has an individual pathway to walk. (If you’re really feeling morbid, Tom, I might say that each man owes a single death to pay at the end of his road).  

Yet we touch and move each other’s trajectories in a million, billion ways. Like ripples in a pond, the words we say and things we write; our every interaction with each other - radiates outwards and changes the shape of all of our paths…

We are all different, forever, for having known each other.

I can’t think of a better way to showcase this truth than what goes on in these forums. We don’t know who each other are, most of us will never shake the other’s hand or know his true name. Won’t meet for a drink, (outside of Bardy’s now-quiet pub).

Yet I know that notwithstanding that, I am forever changed by my deep connection with so many here.

You see: When a Neshoma touches another, the effect is NITZCHIYUS.

Grass may grow long and undisturbed over unused usernames and quiet threads. Guys have moved on for many reasons, many due to “graduating”, as HHM said. Yet please remember that just as the posts, conversations, connections and human touches remain saved and accessible in the depths of these forums- so too is our striving, connection and steps towards growth, together, that which lasts forever. 
Please feel free to reach out anytime at chaim.oigen@gmail.com

Perhaps you'd enjoy seeing Chaim's Oigen
Last Edit: 21 Nov 2024 01:29 by chaimoigen.

Re: Chaim's Oigen 21 Nov 2024 11:35 #425547

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And even if they are not, baring and sharing the secret part of your soul with a friend, even if you'll never know his real name, is a genuine connection that transcends many in-person meetings that take place wearing all the masks and layers we put on in public.

SO TRUE

Re: Chaim's Oigen 13 Jan 2025 14:19 #429005

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Here's another, in similar vein as the previous, that made it to the GYE weekly email. With some small additions:

Why the GYE Forum Could Be Your Key to Lasting Change
By: Chaim Oigen


With a spirit of humility, care, and respect I would like to share some thoughts on lasting and internal change.
There's been discussion on the GYE forum about folks who feel euphoric about finally breaking free, only to face the reality that the internal problem is still there. Some say "hugs," charts, and accountability are just distractions from the real work of internal change.


Here are my thoughts: Yes, change must be internalized to last. An addiction can't be cured with optimistic positivity alone. But the value of these forums in creating lasting change is profound and undeniable.


Here's why: You can only take step two after step one. It's terrifying to communicate with others, even behind anonymity. The forums provide a critical first step, and a warm welcome encourages people to stick around, make connections, and learn about ways to grow.


The reality is that most of us have tried to fix this problem alone and failed. That means "just stopping" isn't really an option for almost anyone who finds themselves on GYE. If someone has been using P&M to fill a deep aching need for years, against better judgment, merely talking about wanting to stop won't create real changes.

But here's the thing - a human is a marvelously complex piece of work, fueled by a cosmic Neshoma, weighed down by childhood upbringing, his Yetzerim and personality, and the burdens of unrequited hopes and dreams. Complex situations and relationships. Sheifos, goals, setbacks. And life. People! It ain't easy to fix em up.


We are all muddling through, best as we can. And it takes trial and error, working from the outside to the inside. We have to try. Genuinely. Start with what we can wrap our heads around. Make mistakes. Ask questions. Keep trying. Learn new things. Sometimes it penetrates, sometimes it doesn't. You need mentors and friends, methods and self-realization. And with Siyata Dishmaya, things will be different - if you keep trying.

These forums are sacred and special because they provide tools for genuine change and growth in a way that I haven't seen before. They are:


- A safe place to recognize that your life has become unmanageable

- A place to make friends by sharing and caring

- A place to connect with a fellowship of people who actually understand
- A place to discover and learn from people who have shared their personal life experiences, experience that no one really shares elsewhere. There's no substitute, when it comes to learning,  for LIFE EXPERIENCE 

- A place to face up to your own mistakes and learn how to make amends

- A place to learn profound truths about yourself, Yiddishkeit, marriage, and relationships

- A place to discover what works for you

And maybe most importantly - the forums are where people receive the gift of opportunity to actually meet with real people, when they get to that stage, which leads to indescribable potential for healing.

A lot of the real healing with mentors here takes place offline, without a clear record in the forums (so if you haven't yet, talk to someone).


May Hashem bless GYE. I have a paper with all the names of the guys I've met and spoken with, and I daven for you regularly. Because I love you and hope that we'll all keep growing together, each in his own way, with Hashem's help.


מאן דבעי חיים

Please feel free to reach out anytime at chaim.oigen@gmail.com

Perhaps you'd enjoy seeing Chaim's Oigen
Last Edit: 13 Jan 2025 14:20 by chaimoigen.

Re: Chaim's Oigen 13 Jan 2025 17:07 #429015

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Why The Good Sex In Good (Frum) Marriages Can Only Be Experienced From Within
By: Chaim Oigen 

A while back, there was a guy on the forums who shared about difficult conversations he was having with his father, who isn’t religious. His father was casting doubt about the premise of Frum marriages being successful. Among other objections, he was claiming that Frum dating and marriage is misogynistic and doesn’t work, and suggesting that it is necessary for a couple to “try out” the bedroom in advance to see if they are sexually compatible.
Here is my response (with some additions).
I think it addresses a lot more than the questions that were being asked there. 


Most of your father’s assumptions about frum marriage are pretty much completely wrong, and it’s completely understandable that an outsider would make those assumptions, becuase of how we look to the outside world. It’s smart of you to reach out to ask what really goes on. 

Today, frum dating (for the most part, certainly in the Litvish world), doesn’t mean that you don’t know the woman you’re marrying well by the time that you walk down the aisle to the Chuppa. On the contrary, dating in a marriage-focused setting, (after intensive research ) enables a couple to get to know each other on a deeper level than they can if they would be hooking up after a couple of dates.

Please look up and read a New York Times article about “The Thirty Six Questions to fall in Love” (There’s a TED Talk on the topic too) about how lasting, deep, relationships are forged by sharing different layers by answering personal questions while making eye contact….

Lasting marriages happen through shared goals, emotional investment and mutual respect and work, attachment, and a healthy dose of Siyata dishmaya. We have a community that is very invested in belonging to a family unit, and that’s a healthy thing. Staying together in a disastrous relationship because of the stigma of divorce isn’t healthy, but is far less frequent, especially today. The idea that we have a lower divorce rate because women have less rights, for the most part simply is not true. 

Sure, frum couples argue and even fight. And they also kiss and make up, too. Same as everyone else. I’m not sure why anyone would think otherwise. 

Me and my wife have had plenty of disagreements,  even some pretty serious ones over our decades of marriage. And we’ve had some pretty intense apologies, too. Both of us have each changed and grown in so many ways through those experiences. We’re on pretty solid ground by now, we rely on each other always, and BH it’s terrific. But marriage always needs work. Like people.

Marriage is the best setting to become a mensch. And the best chance you have at it. And you can earn love, companionship, happiness, intimacy, and family along the way. If you look at it that way, as a growth opportunity, then I don’t think there’s any reason to think that failure is inevitable. That’s only when you look at love as something that “happens” and unhappiness and something that results when it “stops happening”.  

The concept of trying out a few women to see what you like, and trying your potential wife out in advance to see if you are sexually compatible is unfortunately completely wrongheaded. Allow me to explain. 

There are two kinds of sex. There is Taking/Excitement Sex in which a person is excited by the erotic and seeks the greatest orgasmic pleasure that he can get, which would be triggered by whatever he (or she) would find to provide the greatest source of sexual stimulation.
The problem is that the excitement doesn’t last with a single partner, and trying new things runs out, and demeans the wife. It leads to emotionally sealed-off sex, and leaves a gnawing hunger for more. (Actually, the search for the ultimate sexual experience is one that demeans and objectifies women, far more than the “mysoginy” that’s allegedly practiced in Frum marriages.)


Unfortunately, the quest that begins with trying out different women to see what  sexuality satisfies you ends in frustration and unhappiness. Yeah, maybe that’s why the system he’s suggesting has an incredibly high divorce rate. 

Sex as an expression of intimacy in a loving relationship is completely different

It’s not sealed-off taking, it’s connecting. It’s expressing something that exists between you. The whole day that you’ve shared is there when you climb into bed.

And you are enwrapped in the aura of years of hopes and dreams and hurts, the vulnerability and ache and all the joy of what’s between you for years, all this gets expressed in a private moment of intense personal nakedness and connection that satisfies in ways that Hollywood can never portray. It may not be as exciting but it’s far more satisfying. And pleasurable in a way that has to be experienced.

Intimacy is much better after 20 years, and a lot of kids and tears and dreams. When you know what each other like, and like to give it because you love each other. Hope you get there, it’s worth it.

Obviously some times are better than others, some have it better than others. If a couple has other issues in the relationship this won’t necessarily solve them, and this may not work for them, either. I’m painting an idealized picture.
But the idea is that Intimacy Sex is a completely different idea and that the joy and satisfaction in the experience is one that’s dependent on marriage, love commitment and relationship.  As opposed to the other kind of sex, which is founded on “fun”, being “hot”, performance and excitement.
The idea is that are two experiences completely different things entirely.


 Porn and Hollywood are selling a counterfeit  imatation, or at least selling the sugar rush without the nutrients. The flash and sizzle without the substance.  Or as HHM likes to say: “Intimacy is cake. Sex is icing. Cake without icing is pretty good. Icing without cake doesn’t satisfy. Cake with icing is best”. (That’s why every good romance movie has a plot that involves the protagonists finding lasting love, not just lust, ‘cause it’s a necessary part of the satisfying fantasy).

So this is why the idea of trying out sex with a few partners, and a potential spouse before committing isn’t right. Because it’s impossible. You can’t “try it out“ with someone you’re not committed to - that’s a contradiction in terms!! You can’t try out the intimacy of commitment and shared life when you aren’t committed and aren’t sharing anything except a sweaty grunting in the night. Trying to preview marriage by trying the other kind of sex is sad and wrong. That’s why the Torah encourages discovering intimacy only IN MARRIAGE. Because that’s where you can experience the real deal. 

That’s all I can write now.
Here’s a hand and a hug. Hang on! You’ll find the truth in your heart of how you want to live. And Hashem will guide you, if you ask Him to.

Hold on to Him, tight. 

Your friend,
Chaim

Please feel free to reach out anytime at chaim.oigen@gmail.com

Perhaps you'd enjoy seeing Chaim's Oigen
Last Edit: 13 Jan 2025 20:28 by chaimoigen.

Re: Chaim's Oigen 13 Jan 2025 21:33 #429033

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I love your explanations, however the question simply had no basis at all.

“he was claiming that Frum dating and marriage is misogynistic and doesn’t work, and suggesting that it is necessary for a couple to “try out” the bedroom in advance to see if they are sexually compatible”

I heard this same thing from a non-Jewish female therapist who never married.

Please!! Look at their divorce rates to determine life expectancy of their failed ideologies in marriage.

Sorry I should’ve told you earlier and saved you a bunch of virtual ink
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Re: Chaim's Oigen 13 Jan 2025 21:45 #429035

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Markz wrote on 13 Jan 2025 21:33:
I love your explanations, however the question simply had no basis at all.

“he was claiming that Frum dating and marriage is misogynistic and doesn’t work, and suggesting that it is necessary for a couple to “try out” the bedroom in advance to see if they are sexually compatible”

I heard this same thing from a non-Jewish female therapist who never married.

Please!! Look at their divorce rates to determine life expectancy of their failed ideologies in marriage.

Sorry I should’ve told you earlier and saved you a bunch of virtual ink

Shalom Brother Markz,

Why should a baseless question invalidate an insightful answer - especially when a lot of people aside from the questioneer will read it?

** If you're joking about the 'wasted' effort and it slipped past my head . . . sorry. 
Today is yesterday's tomorrow.
The yetzarim a person has the most trouble dealing with are his most powerful God-given tools for developing his potential and achieving shleimus.
It doesn't matter how big the number is, only that today it is going up by one.

Please feel free to reach out. I'd appreciate connecting with you (via GYE, email, or phone - whatever floats your boat)
A little about me: guardyoureyes.com/forum/19-Introduce-Yourself/412971-I-Want-to-Help-Others
Last Edit: 13 Jan 2025 21:53 by BenHashemBH.

Re: Chaim's Oigen 14 Jan 2025 02:45 #429061

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Markz wrote on 13 Jan 2025 21:33:
I love your explanations, however the question simply had no basis at all.

“he was claiming that Frum dating and marriage is misogynistic and doesn’t work, and suggesting that it is necessary for a couple to “try out” the bedroom in advance to see if they are sexually compatible”

I heard this same thing from a non-Jewish female therapist who never married.

Please!! Look at their divorce rates to determine life expectancy of their failed ideologies in marriage.

Sorry I should’ve told you earlier and saved you a bunch of virtual ink

Of course I agree with your point. But the questioner needed, I thought, these explanations at the time.
And I felt that the various points in the above post/article transcend the specific question and have value in and of themselves, (because a few guys told me that they got a lot out of that post)...
Please feel free to reach out anytime at chaim.oigen@gmail.com

Perhaps you'd enjoy seeing Chaim's Oigen
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