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More than a fall...
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TOPIC: More than a fall... 4569 Views

More than a fall... 08 Apr 2018 11:58 #329330

  • spike ed
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I have been on and off gye for a while now, probably a couple of years. I have had good streaks and many falls and am grateful to have the forum and community here for help and support and now I need it more than ever. After a decent streak I had the deepest fall I have ever, and will ever have. That is because it involved another person. I am married with a child and the incident wasn't sex though it was a sexual act that lead to a fall. I don't know where to go from here. The whole incident lasted maybe 5 minutes and I am afraid I have lost my soul to a place that I can't return from. I honestly feel like I deserve "karet" to be cut off from the Jewish people and am afraid of what comes next. 
3,2,1, Lets Jam.

Re: More than a fall... 08 Apr 2018 12:37 #329331

  • ieeyc
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chazak chazak! many people here have been in your position, dont give up!have you gone to a theripist?wishing you well,keep connected and bezras Hashem youll lust problem will heal. hatzlacha!

לב  טהור   ברא   לי   אלקים , ורוח  נכון    חדש  בקרבי

  to all my friends who heeded my request  to be so generous and give me a negative karma  for the sake of me acquiring       
                                                . humility ,i humbly  thank you                                                                                                 

Last Edit: 08 Apr 2018 12:41 by ieeyc.

Re: More than a fall... 08 Apr 2018 16:54 #329334

  • spike ed
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Also can I justify not telling my wife about this incident. She knows about my struggle and supports me though it has been very hard on her and something like this would be devastating for her. I know myself well enough to know this incident will never happen again and wasnt even intended in the first place. Can I still be on the right path to teshuva by keeping this from her?
3,2,1, Lets Jam.

Re: More than a fall... 08 Apr 2018 17:19 #329335

  • yerushalmi
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Hey Spike,

The fact that you came here. means that you are seeking to correct your misdeed. That means that you are trying to come back to Hashem. Hashem loves you very much, and is rooting for you, and wants you to succeed. HE wants you to come back to him. If you had good streaks, that means you have the wherewithal to do it again. You may be starting off from farther back than in previous recoveries, but you can still do it. Don't give up on yourself!
Karet only applies to the nefesh, the lowest of the 3 levels of a person's neshamah. The other parts of his neshamah (called the רוח and נשמה) remain connected. (R. Chaim Volozhin, sefer Nefesh haChaim) You still have a strong connection to Hashem and to the Jewish people. This connection CAN NEVER BE SEVERED! You are still there! 
King Menashe slept with his sister (ילקוט שמעוני, מלכים) and he still did Teshuvah, so can you!!
As to what comes next, that is totally up to you! You can build on this one act, and repeat it, or you can make sure that it wont happen again! Perhaps if you analyzed how you came into contact with this individual, you can make sure that it won't happen again!

All the best, 
Yerushalmi

Re: More than a fall... 08 Apr 2018 17:37 #329336

  • Markz
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Spike Ed wrote on 08 Apr 2018 16:54:
Also can I justify not telling my wife about this incident. She knows about my struggle and supports me though it has been very hard on her and something like this would be devastating for her. I know myself well enough to know this incident will never happen again and wasnt even intended in the first place. Can I still be on the right path to teshuva by keeping this from her?

I now know myself well enough to know that there's a lot I do not know about myself

Thank Gd I have a Therapist
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Sorry for interrupting... go on...

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Re: More than a fall... 08 Apr 2018 17:39 #329337

  • spike ed
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Thank you very much for this well thought out response. It really means allot to me. So a very hard question here but where do I start my path to Teshuva, I mean in a real concrete way as oppose to general ideas, I need a set path and rules. Also how do I balance the feeling of I need to get up and move on with the genuine regret and pain I'm supposed to feel as part of the teshuva process.
3,2,1, Lets Jam.

Re: More than a fall... 08 Apr 2018 17:54 #329339

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Can you tell us what steps of recovery you have taken in the past? What has worked and what hasn't?
My email: thenewme613@hotmail.com
My threads: Mikvah Night - Page 1Page 2Page 3Last Page

https://guardyoureyes.com/forum/1-Break-Free/210029-Tryin
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Re: More than a fall... 08 Apr 2018 19:41 #329346

Don’t know your story... For me, my teshuva is doing whatever I can to get healthy. Maybe one day when this is all way behind me it’ll be time for teshuva. But then again, maybe not. I don’t see myself as a sinner in this scenario. That isn’t what is happening here. I’m a sick person who needs to recover. If you are adamant about the teshuvah however, I believe that acc. some poskim the main requirement for teshuva is stopping to do the sin (azivas hacheit). So that sounds like a good start no matter how u look at it.
If you are really bored, you can check out my original thread here: guardyoureyes.com/forum/4-On-the-Way-to-90-Days/305558-Journey-of-one-day-at-a-time 

"Think good and it will be good!"

Re: More than a fall... 08 Apr 2018 20:22 #329352

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Ihavestrength wrote on 08 Apr 2018 19:41:
Don’t know your story... For me, my teshuva is doing whatever I can to get healthy. Maybe one day when this is all way behind me it’ll be time for teshuva. But then again, maybe not. I don’t see myself as a sinner in this scenario. That isn’t what is happening here. I’m a sick person who needs to recover. If you are adamant about the teshuvah however, I believe that acc. some poskim the main requirement for teshuva is stopping to do the sin (azivas hacheit). So that sounds like a good start no matter how u look at it.

please excuse me  my ayno  yoday`a    lish`ol question, you wrote:
Maybe one day when this is all way behind me it’ll be time for teshuva.
teshuva on what,for being sick?

לב  טהור   ברא   לי   אלקים , ורוח  נכון    חדש  בקרבי

  to all my friends who heeded my request  to be so generous and give me a negative karma  for the sake of me acquiring       
                                                . humility ,i humbly  thank you                                                                                                 

Re: More than a fall... 08 Apr 2018 21:47 #329357

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ieeyc wrote on 08 Apr 2018 20:22:

Ihavestrength wrote on 08 Apr 2018 19:41:
Don’t know your story... For me, my teshuva is doing whatever I can to get healthy. Maybe one day when this is all way behind me it’ll be time for teshuva. But then again, maybe not. I don’t see myself as a sinner in this scenario. That isn’t what is happening here. I’m a sick person who needs to recover. If you are adamant about the teshuvah however, I believe that acc. some poskim the main requirement for teshuva is stopping to do the sin (azivas hacheit). So that sounds like a good start no matter how u look at it.

please excuse me  my ayno  yoday`a    lish`ol question, you wrote:
Maybe one day when this is all way behind me it’ll be time for teshuva.
teshuva on what,for being sick?

This is a good and legitimate question. Basically, if one's actions are on account of his bein' sick, what is the necessity for teshuvah?

I don't know the answers for others, but let me tell you my understandin' for myself. And granted, this might not be the best answer for everyone.

I never decided or determined if I am/was indeed sick. I know I was/am an addict and I know I'm pretty close to powerless. It took me several years of tryin' step after step until I was able to reach a point of recovery (although I can slip and fall at any moment). That bein' said, if I would have concentrated on doin' teshuvah on my past behavior, or if I would focus on it now, I'd be a dead man. Perhaps I was sick and do not need teshuvah, perhaps I wasn't, perhaps I made a slew of bad decisions that brought about this condition; regardless, this is somethin' that will need to be taken care of some other time. Today, I will focus on today.

God speed!
My email: thenewme613@hotmail.com
My threads: Mikvah Night - Page 1Page 2Page 3Last Page

https://guardyoureyes.com/forum/1-Break-Free/210029-Tryin
:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!
My job: Punchin' bag of GYE - "NeshamaInCharge"
Quote from the chevra: "Is Cordnoy truly a Treasure Island pirate from the Southern Seas?"

MY POSTS ARE NOT WRITTEN AS A MODERATOR UNLESS EXPLICITLY STATED.

Re: More than a fall... 09 Apr 2018 10:27 #329382

  • yerushalmi
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Spike Ed wrote on 08 Apr 2018 17:39:
Thank you very much for this well thought out response. It really means allot to me. So a very hard question here but where do I start my path to Teshuva, I mean in a real concrete way as oppose to general ideas, I need a set path and rules. Also how do I balance the feeling of I need to get up and move on with the genuine regret and pain I'm supposed to feel as part of the teshuva process.

The root of the word חטא, sin, means to miss a target. A person strives to come close to Hashem, and if he sins, he missed the goal he was aiming for. The root of the word Teshuvah, is to return. Teshuvah is the process of returning, and coming closer to Hashem, and forging a stronger connection to HIM.
There are 4 main components of Teshuvah:
1) Stopping the misdeed. (עזיבת החטא)
2) Regret over our actions. (חרטה)
3) Verbally saying exactly what it was that we did wrong.(וידוי)
4) Committing to not repeat the sin. (קבלה על העתיד)
The sefer Sha'arey Teshuvah expands this to 20 steps.

The first is the easiest to understand, but may be the hardest to do. We need to stop our misbehavior. 

The 2nd, requires us to feel genuine anguish over what we have done. This can be done by expounding on the following ideas: Hashem loves me so much. HE has provided for me since I was a fetus in my mother's womb. HE continues to provide for me every day. HE does not do this because HE owes me, but because HE loves me and cares for me, and wants me to have a relationship with HIM. How could I have disappointed so deeply someone who loves me that much?  Hashem gave mankind the power to adapt and change HIS world for our needs. He wants us to do so. HE also wants us to acknowledge HIM, and to understand that despite everything that we do, it all comes from HIM. HE is trusting us to arrive at this conclusion. How could I have let HIM down after all the trust that he put in us? 
This can take a more forceful approach. How dare I have violated HIS word?? HE continually provides for me, and at the very moment that HE is keeping me alive, I have violated HIS command? I have an opportunity to approach the All Powerful, All Seeing, All Knowing, the Infinite, and I walked the other way!? Either way, the feeling should be that I feel bad for what I have done, and genuinely want to come closer to Hashem

The 3rd requires us to verbally state what we have done wrong. This should be done as exactingly as we can.

The 4th step is a commitment to not be a repeat offender. On a practical level, that means analyzing where we went wrong, and taking concrete steps and instituting safeguards to avoid another mishap. Filtering one's devices or avoiding certain places are safeguards to prevent us from repeating the sin. 
Also included in this, is learning the Halachos of whatever area one struggles with. This way he can know for certain what is permitted and what is prohibited. I heard in the name of R. Yisroel Salanter, that if a person has a difficulty in a certain area, he should learn in depth the laws of that topic. Gemara with Rishonim and Acharonim, Tur with Bais Yosef, Shulchan Aruch with appropriate commentaries (Shach, Taz, Magen Avraham, Sema, Chelkas Mechokek as applicable.), contemporary seforim and Teshuvos about the subject. This is a segulah to help a person overcome a struggle in a particular area.
One should also start a seder to learn mussar, to help regain the connection to Hashem. There are many seforim available in the original Hebrew, and with English translation. You can browse them, and find one that speaks to you. 
Daven, daven, and then daven some more. Ask Hashem to help you return to him. Ask him for the wisdom to find strategies to fight the Yetzer. Ask him to give you strength to overcome hard challenges. A person who does this, even if he only starts this process, will feel a greater connection to Hashem. The sin that he did will actually be a catalyst for him to come closer to Hashem! Perhaps this is what Chazal meant when they said that a person's sins can become merits.
I hope this works. All the best! Everyone here is rooting for you. DON'T LET US DOWN!!!

Re: More than a fall... 09 Apr 2018 21:03 #329422

  • spike ed
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As I said before, I am reading and giving much thought to each response, so thank you to everybody, and I am making a plan to turn the feelings and thoughts into actions. Can someone please touch upon the relationship aspect I mentioned, as I said regarding the fall and that it involved another person and how that affects me as a married man and regarding bringing it up with my wife. I am happy to share more information about myself if need be to get some guidance in this regard.
3,2,1, Lets Jam.

Re: More than a fall... 09 Apr 2018 22:29 #329434

  • yerushalmi
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What do you want to know about the relationship? Whatever happened with the individual with whom you acted out, is over. You know how you were "hooked  up" with this person, and you also know when and where you met. Make sure that neither happens again.

If you want to share details of your story, you can always send a private message to anyone on this site. 

Re: More than a fall... 10 Apr 2018 08:44 #329468

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cordnoy wrote on 08 Apr 2018 21:47:

ieeyc wrote on 08 Apr 2018 20:22:

Ihavestrength wrote on 08 Apr 2018 19:41:
Don’t know your story... For me, my teshuva is doing whatever I can to get healthy. Maybe one day when this is all way behind me it’ll be time for teshuva. But then again, maybe not. I don’t see myself as a sinner in this scenario. That isn’t what is happening here. I’m a sick person who needs to recover. If you are adamant about the teshuvah however, I believe that acc. some poskim the main requirement for teshuva is stopping to do the sin (azivas hacheit). So that sounds like a good start no matter how u look at it.

please excuse me  my ayno  yoday`a    lish`ol question, you wrote:
Maybe one day when this is all way behind me it’ll be time for teshuva.
teshuva on what,for being sick?

This is a good and legitimate question. Basically, if one's actions are on account of his bein' sick, what is the necessity for teshuvah?

I don't know the answers for others, but let me tell you my understandin' for myself. And granted, this might not be the best answer for everyone.

I never decided or determined if I am/was indeed sick. I know I was/am an addict and I know I'm pretty close to powerless. It took me several years of tryin' step after step until I was able to reach a point of recovery (although I can slip and fall at any moment). That bein' said, if I would have concentrated on doin' teshuvah on my past behavior, or if I would focus on it now, I'd be a dead man. Perhaps I was sick and do not need teshuvah, perhaps I wasn't, perhaps I made a slew of bad decisions that brought about this condition; regardless, this is somethin' that will need to be taken care of some other time. Today, I will focus on today.

God speed!

thanks for the clarification because ive spoken to some people here who seemed to be under an assumption that addiction is a sickness that requires no teshuva-maybe the sit should be split up into 1. nonaddict sinners 2.addicts who are sinners 3.addicts who are sick (4.undecided)

לב  טהור   ברא   לי   אלקים , ורוח  נכון    חדש  בקרבי

  to all my friends who heeded my request  to be so generous and give me a negative karma  for the sake of me acquiring       
                                                . humility ,i humbly  thank you                                                                                                 

Re: More than a fall... 10 Apr 2018 11:16 #329474

  • spike ed
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I am referring to the relationship with my wife and if I can be justified in not discussing this incident with her
3,2,1, Lets Jam.
Last Edit: 10 Apr 2018 11:17 by spike ed. Reason: Typo
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