If you are engaging in activities that are questionable it may not make a difference at this point if the desires are “ a normal man thing vs an addiction”. The goal is to find a way to stop the behaviors.

Continue to fight and continue to be proud. If you are progressing then continue doing what you are doing.

It has been a while since I last posted. I was debating whether to make a new thread or not, but I'm going to continue here.
Its been a journey, with ups and downs and successes (some big) and failures (some big too), but hanging in there. I had a recent fall, and I updated my count tonight, but I'm gonna get up an keep fighting!
Just to share my thoughts and for those who don't know about me or my journey. My struggle is less so with porn, but with lust in general. I find myself on websites with "questionable content," and sometimes I can be a bit to free to click on images or text I shouldn't. Not porn, but certainly things I would be embarrassed if others saw or read (don't want to give to much details and trigger others). I believe I have a lust addiction, and poor internet use habits (but not a full out addiction like my lust problem). 
My question is, how do I know when my drive for lust is a normal man thing, vs. an addiction? Sometimes I feel like an addict, and other times I wonder if I am obsessional and I'm a normal guy with desires. Any thoughts? 
Also, if I can share with you a big success I had recently. Long story, but I had the opportunity to go on one of these "questionable" websites, and I was able to control the urge for about an hour! Unfortunately, I fell in the end, but I am proud of the progress I made. I am continuing to fight (I like the surf the waves or stop tools on the F2F program), and as always I love the chizuk because it really keeps me going so please share your kind words!

I'm posting this for imagibbor, who is having technical difficulties that are preventing him from posting:



I’ve been battling porn for over 10 years. I’ve been on and off on and off for that entire period. I simply can’t manage to shake it. I opened up to a therapist recently who’s helped me discover myself in general and specifically with porn.
I’m finding myself in a pattern- throughout the day, I’m doing fine. I’m not thinking about porn, I’m thinking about the battle. I feel like im in control. Like im in charge. But all it takes is one trigger, one hole in my filter, one bad day- and im completely back to the porn addict! It takes barely even a second! There’s no “battle” to be found in those moments. Im just right back to fully engaged in porn without giving it a second thought.
i have this often. If anyone has gone through this and has any advice, I would really appreciate it!!

I would like to introduce myself. I'm introducing myself because I would like to make friends to help me and each other in the Avoda of Kedusha and in part of that friendship (thank you amevakesh for pushing me to do this) I would like to share some thoughts that hopefully may be helpful to someone. I would like to start with my story and then to explain why I am only reaching out now for friendship. 
Last summer discovered GYE. A few decades ago as a young adult I began struggling with a habit  of viewing inappropriate material and other areas of Kedusha. These years were full of better periods- months of tremendous growth in Yeshiva  with few falls, and very bad periods (mostly ben hazmanin when home and internet was unfortunately way too accessible). Baruch Hashem, overall I had very productive growth in many many areas of Avodos Hashem over the years but this was a challenge that hurt me and I was so desperate to kick it. As I grew more and more in my devolvement into a ben torah I really put a lot of the nisayon at bay (getting married and living a beautiful kollel life really helped). But the habit (or call it addiction) of watching pornography was something I still reverted to when feelings of sadness or emptiness were to creep up. I needed guidance on how to break free from this bad habit. Last June 29th I started Flight To Freedom. I admitted to myself that I had an issue and was going to invest real time and work into the program and really to break free. F2F was my therapist, my rebbe, and absolutely G-D-sent gift from shamayim (I'm so indebted to all those involved in the making of it!!!!! If I ever get rich I'm going to support it bl"n).  It validated me, gave me hope, and most of all gave me the tools to break free. And break free I did, BH! After a few weeks of trial and error on July 17th I started a streak which lasted for 373 days!! On July 17th when I hit a year free it was from the most gratifying accomplishments of my life. And then on day 374- 3 days ago I fell. Not hard, but I fell. It hurt. And then I fell again a bit harder yesterday. It hurt hard. It still hurts. Oy, how much I yearn to not be here back at the beginning of a new streak, but I would like to take this as an opportunity to reframe my journey a bit and perhaps this time we could do this together!  I need your help!! I need friends to help me get back on my feet. and I need help in the reframing of the journey!

When I started last July I wrote under 'My Plan' that the top reason I want to break this habit is because "This is an area that is totally inconsistent with the rest of my development and growth". Meaning I viewed myself as an overall bentorah , perhaps even a chosuva learner to boot, with this tremendous flaw of being habitually a porn watcher. I viewed it as a side problem that had to be dealt with. For this reason I think I didn't want to get involved with the amazing GYE chevra. I didn't want to associate my life with this problem. I wanted to fix it and move on.Baruch Hashem I broke free, I un-addicted myself and the fruits of that began with a 373 day streak of Tahara. But through breaking free I learnt so much more about this challenge. I learnt that while perhaps my pornography watching was addiction oriented it also left a deep imprint on me. It was disallowing me to connect to a full ruchnius life, as I want to explain further.

Allow me to make a bold totally uncertified statement. Bnei Torah-- Mevaksei Hashem- people who are immersing their life in real Ruchnius struggle with areas of Kedusha as the central Nisayon in their life. The reason this is is because they are seekers of connection and ruchnius lends itself to that of the ultimate connection- one that our Neshama truly seeks- and our Neshama- our essence- is created in essence as a seeker of pleasure. Therefore as we continue to immerse ourselves deeply into Hashem's Torah and really attain levels of connection to Ruchnius, Yetzor Hara's main task is now to rid of this tremendous  pleasure. The only thing in his arsenal that can combat a Chiddush in ger katan is that of extreme תאוות נשים. That does not mean to say that it is of equal pleasure. In fact it pales in comparison quite miserably, but it has its superficial easy nature to attai that can allure us into falling deeply into that connection replacing feelings of connection to Ruchnius. And even more potently, it disconnects our Neshama's connection to Ruchnius through miraging our feelings of connection with something so fake- which gives a suffocating blow to our feelings of connection that our neshama really yearns for. Perhaps this is the פשט in the -גמרא that כל הגדול מחברו גדול יצרו ממנו-  the more one feels connection in רוחניות the more the יצה"ר has to present superficial feelings of connection through דברים של טומאהPerhaps the addictive nature of these struggles root itself in the שקיעות- immersion that it is coming to replace of שקיעות בתורה. Perhaps this is precisely why בני תורה struggle so much. בני תורה should not be ashamed of this struggle, it is a testament to their tremendous desire to grow.Looking back at the year of טהרה it is almost hard to capture how much this allowed me to grow. I was able to fully immerse myself in רוחניות. Tefilla afforded opportunity for real connection. I was able to fully CONNECT to my wife- another area of connection that watching phonography kills as it replaces a super deep relationship with quick superficial feeling of fake connection. It allowed me to connect so much deeper to everyone around me as my I now began to seek true connection. I began to understand people better as I actually was connecting with them. And the list I'm sure goes on and on if I were to stop to think of it.
I think this frames the struggle of עניני קידושה into a central area of our growth. It is not a pain, a side nuisance. rather a key ploy of the יצר הרע in our pursuit of our real עבודה leaving a life full of connection to Hashem. I regret not bringing you guys for the ride the first time. I believe it was because of this mistake- I misunderstood this battle to be a side-battle, not a central battle in רוחניות.So dear friends, I ask of you to join me in this exciting, and central pursuit of combating the יצר הרע's pathetic attempt to replace true connection of רוחניות with his world of טומאה. Let's share our triumphs of real growth in רוחניות and share our insights into the fake world it is showing us, and together we will all become true עובדי ה' ד through this battle of uncovering the mask of the יצה"ר  and connection all so deeply to true connection. I also humbly request all your help in getting back up and celebrating next year on August 1st another year of טהרה, this time together!

Duuuuude.......... You really still think you are 'missing out' when  you dont watch porn? Missing out what? do you realize that people not hooked to porn or who overcame that addiction never actually miss out anything? or you think that they survive even though they miss out? 

Your mind and brain and body are used to getting that fix from porn and masturbation and thats why you think you will miss it. 
the truth is that once you can get off of these things for a while, your system will slowly reset and you will not NEED to do any of these things anymore. 

Of course its not easy, but dont let your mind fool you that you will miss this forever. ITS FALSE!

Day 3:
I am super tired. I have not had much sleep the last couple of nights due to working on my business and taking care of my baby. Today one of my clients came dressed very in appropriately. I told myself " that I have been very strong and that its not worth looking at her. Better to loose her as a client then to mess up on my streak". Baruch Hashem I was able to stay strong. Part of my journey is that I would watch one of the GYE recommend videos or flight to freedom and read one article on horror and one article of recovery. Today I read an article called "1000 days clean" which I felt it resonated with me and made a very strong point which I will qoute here:
"CONNECT with someone on gye. The opposite of addiction is not sobriety - it's CONNECTION. Addiction thrives on isolation! Find someone on GYE (either through the forum or the partner program) that you can share your pain and struggles with. Have someone that you can text, call or meet when the going gets rough. And finally, have someone who can cheer you on and celebrate your both big and small wins with you!"
So I reached out to someone on gye to help me get through.

Article to 1000 days clean: guardyoureyes.com/articles/stories/item/1000-days-clean?category_id=11

Hi, 

It has nothing to do with Lishmo or not. When it comes to abstaining from sinning, you need to do whatever works now.
Having GYE is a great tool for accountability. Nothing wrong with that. 
Plus the fact we all know that addiction grows in the darkness and wilts before exposure. So talking it out with us takes away some of the pull. 

Regarding getting rid of lust- that is a lifetime of work. I dont think anyone can actually say that they are completely rid of desire, if yes, they probably need to get their hormones checked out at once.... 
What is possible and achievable is to not let Lust get you to do things like staring, thinking, touching and other things that you dont want. 
You can learn how to let go of the lust whenever it pops up. 
You can learn how to walk on the street without going crazy. 

But first you need to learn self control and that is what the GYE 90 day tool is for. First get your muscles working. 

Good luck and i dont envy you. Israel is the summer is not safe for me.....

chosemyshem wrote on 29 Jul 2024 17:10:

Good stuff

Dov wrote on 07 Aug 2013 22:43:

Dug through the weirdest thread evah to find this gem \(*_*)/

chosemyshem wrote on 25 Jul 2024 16:05:

your post reminded me of the the elderly man i once encountered who was stuck in an electric wheelchair with only limited use of his hands.  he too was stuck in the world of masturbation and self gratification .  It was so sad and definitely a wake up call.

It was so many years ago yet I remember it so clearly. I was 18 years old I am now over 50. I decided with a few friends that while we would be in the city that day we would try to sneak into a movie theater known for its "dirty movies" At the time there was no internet. Shmutz and acting out essentially had to do with magazines and movies.



We were "successful" and entered the theater. What I saw startled me. The last 4 to 6 rows were filled and tightly filled with men in their sixties and seventies. They all looked sort of saddened and empty but not necessarily of low income.

The rest of the theater was empty except for us 3 kids. I looked back at these men and thought " do they still have urges like us young guys? Is there nothing else they could do in their golden years? I certainly won't be such a loser at their age. Only now, when I am young and H_____ will I go to such a place. For me going here is sorta normal but these old geysers???"



I have since learned that P____, acting out and the like is not so uncommon for the elderly. It is clear that sexual addiction just does not go away. Young men so inclined become middle-aged men so inclined and eventually turn into elderly men ...



Is there anything more sadder and more reprehensible as a dirty old man?



Conversely, the person who works on himself with a proper program of recovery is the polar opposite. He becomes more self-confident as he works his program.

AT THIS POINT- Although continuing his recovery he feels capable of working on other middos. Daven and learn more. His glowing nature becomes conspicuous to others.



"Chochmos Adam Tair Panav" He becomes a dignified person with a happy disposition.





Hachaim V'hamaves is really in our hands. If we have the desire and put forth the right



hishtadlus, G-d will take care of the rest.


Huh. HTML is very annoying. This is a quote from this post on this thread but the quotey part disappeared somehow.

BenHashemBH wrote on 24 Jul 2024 21:13:

One thousand percent. Much more articulate than my post. Made a minor revision for clarity.

As Dov says, it's not that my lust is unmanageable, my life is unmanageable. Turn my life over to his care and start living my life the way he wants it to be.

As far as I can tell (from Dov's workshops and reading the big book but not actually doing the 12 step program) this is the whole kuntz of the 12 steps. This, together with honesty and connection (via meetings), and eventually service is the entire program. Honestly the nekudas hamachlokes between this and the BOTG is incredibly small (but very important). And that is just whether turning my life over to hashem is done through surrendering to him or through fighting to get to him.

Trying to work this through.

.

You can’t control X (and presumably don’t want X to control you) – step 1

Hashem has the ability to help you with everything (which includes controlling X) – step 2

You relinquish everything to Hashem (including transferring that control of X to Him) – step 3

.

If you replace X (porn) with Y (exercise), not that that can’t work, but it doesn’t fit with the declaration that you can’t control X.

.

Seems it’s not just about giving Hashem your X addiction. The only time that X is explicitly mentioned is in the first step. You give Him everything, your whole life. That’s why its not filling a void, because space for my will no longer exists. All that you are is now bound to Him, and there is no room left for X.

.

So for this to work, you CAN’T just give over X and keep the rest. Hashem isn’t the closet where you toss in your mess and then proclaim your room clean. He’s your entirely new room that doesn’t require a closed closet because everything is as it should be. Lev tahor bara li Elokim.

.

This is intense. You are ceasing to be all of who you were until this day, and allowing yourself to be recreated anew by the only One who has that power. You give Him your absolute surrender, because you believe that He will not destroy your true and meaningful self, as He purifies your very being.

.

You let Him choose your Shem.

Just had another big fall. Figured it would be better to come on here and write and read a little as a step towards getting better. Thought I'd rather end my day doing this than with the acts before. I don't want to think about what I just did. But I know how bored and lonely I felt the entire day, which led up to the fall. I feel a bit hopeless- how in the world will I ever be rid of this addiction? I'm in shidduchim already. I feel so guilty in the fact that I have a date scheduled and I'm still doing this. I saw someone write "ODAAT"- One day at a time. That's my new motto for this fight. I can't imagine ever being fully clean, but I sure will be clean tomorrow. Just tomorrow. We'll take it One Day At A Time. 

Dear Rabbi Shem, 

I admire your energy to write such deep and insightful posts over and over. Its amazing! Please stick around and keep trucking. 

I want to talk about your question regarding procrastination. 
I cant talk for everyone, I can only share my experience which is pretty extensive...............

Everyone has uncomfortable things in his life, some stuff that we dont want to deal with, its too hard, too boring, too painful, etc. 
However, most healthy adults will deal with it anyways because thats life, you deal with crap. 
Some people however, find it EXTREMLY hard to do that, either because of past trauma, or because of there brain chemistry, ADHD and so on. 
Those people will seek to escape those problematic things in life by whatever means necessary. Drinking, gambling, binge watching, porn, sex, everything that will numb that uncomfortable feeling for a bit, its easier to numb the pain then having to go thru surgery. 

Others, especially people with ADHD have a chronic lack of dopamine and norepinephrine neurotransmitters. That makes the body crave it more then the regular person. And once they try out one of the drugs mentioned above, the body gets used to it and now wants it even more. Thats why ADHD people are more prone to be addicts. 

Anyhow, i cant tell you whats going on in your brain, But one thing you must make clear to your self, When you say your ideal day would include porn and arousal, thats just your body craving its dopamine and norepinephrine! If you can get it from a healthy source, you wouldn't NEED the bad stuff!
Regular exercise is just as good a source of dopamine and norepinephrine as sex! Try it! So keep that in mind. 

Love
Chancy