I would like to know if any one has information on SA vs. SMART recovery

griner wrote on 09 Jun 2021 21:30:

While the SMART Recovery program is a group-based model with mutual self-help, the similarities are otherwise limited. One similarity between SA 12-step programs and SMART Recovery is that both programs promote abstinence from the use of substances.


One key difference, on the other hand, is that SMART Recovery does not base its program on a 12-step model, spiritual principles, or a higher power. It instead focuses on evidence-based treatments which incorporate a wide range of interventions, such as CBT. In addition, it does not give participants labels, such as “addict” or “alcoholic” and incorporates online meetings, which are not found in NA or AA.

Furthermore, AA and NA base recovery on the idea that addiction is a chronic disease that cannot be cured but is treatable. SMART Recovery does not see addiction as a disease, though members are free to refer to their addiction as such if they wish. Instead, SMART Recovery describes alcoholism as a behavioral issue which can be corrected and isn’t part of a person’s identity.

Whichever method you choose, research studies indicate that SMART Recovery and 12-step models are equally effective.

Maladaptive Behavior vs. Chronic Disease
SMART Recovery characterizes addiction as maladaptive behaviors which can be changed. Rather than conceptualize alcoholism and addiction as a chronic disease, SMART recovery encourages people struggling with addiction to not see themselves as powerless and at the mercy of a condition, but rather to see themselves as empowered to overcome the problematic behaviors.

Therefore, programs such as AA and NA that characterize addiction as a chronic disease rather than a maladaptive behavior, understand the need for ongoing treatment throughout a person’s life, similar to other chronic conditions such as diabetes. Addiction is a progressive, relapsing disease that requires intensive treatments, continuing aftercare, and family or peer support to maintain sobriety over the course of a person’s lifetime. Within this type of view then, relapse is common and expected.

However, within the medical community, alcohol use disorder is considered a chronic relapsing brain disease. The National Institute on Alcohol Abuse & Alcoholism (NIAAA) characterizes AUD as “compulsive alcohol use, loss of control over alcohol intake, and a negative emotional state when not using.” Addiction is caused by a combination of environmental, biological, and behavioral, and genetic factors.

So if I'm working with SMART recovery I should not listen to any 12 steps program because this is going to discourage me.
and I guess the same if you work with the Flight to freedom program

thank you 

DavidT wrote on 10 Jun 2021 13:58:

David - I’m not a professional so I can’t give a totally educated opinion here. 
Rabbi Dr Twerski advised 12 step meetings for many people as therapy alone didn’t help but this did. It’s a place people bring their secrets to the open more than Smart meetings, and the model has proven to help hundreds if not thousands. Ask Dov for more...

Where are the smart meeting stats?
The general gist of your response seemed to promote smart meetings, but I think the right answer would be to present both in a good light and then leave it to the reader to decide. 

Because for many, SMART may do the trick and for many it definitely won’t. 

My 2 cents

Just my two cents. The medical community has a vested interest in propping up SMART vs 12 steps due to 12 steps reliance on G-d and really non medical approach. 

That being said, SMART has worked for many and 12 steps has a very long track record of healing people. Including people who at some point stop going to meetings. 

Ayn chochom Kbaal Hanisayon, try one and if it doesn't work, try the other, the truth will come out sooner than later.

griner wrote on 10 Jun 2021 22:22:

Interesting conversation.

It's interesting how G-d really get's a bad rap in the world of science. If however you believe in Him anyway, I don't see why the G-d aspect should be an issue.  

I am no professional, just my personal opinion. 

Are you thinking about going to live SA meetings and SMART meetings at the same time, or just going through the literature and working through the steps?

This is a difference, you obviously cannot do both fully because they contradict each other (powerless and in your power etc.) but there still is a lot to gain from the 12 steps and it's literature. The AA book is basically a mussar sefer written in English in a way that clearly guides you to a better and more wholesome life. 

Additionally, there are many who indeed are powerless over their addictions, and for them SMART would not work. 

Maybe get a copy of Rabbi Twerski's book Teshuva Through Recovery to better understand how the 12 steps are really rooted in the teachings of Chaza"l. 

I never went to 12 step meetings, but I read a lot of the books and they really helped me in many ways. It really helps build a healthy lifestyle.

And then there is the point that was made earlier, 12 Steps work. There are numbers, hundreds of thousands or millions at this point. It's not for everyone, it's only for someone who can say that their life is unmanageable but it works. 

Markz wrote on 10 Jun 2021 23:07:

You're raising a very valid point. 
On the other hand (I discussed this with "Hashem Help Me") most people are not addicts so the 12 step program and going to SA meetings can be counterproductive for them. 
If a professional like Rabbi Twersky evaluates someone and tells him to go to SA that's one thing, but a person should be very careful before making their own decisions on this.  

DavidT wrote on 10 Jun 2021 13:58:


This is a really fantastic breakdown, thank you!!

I don't think he portrayed either one in a better light than the other. He just articulated the 12-step philosophy very precisely and clearly, and that philosophy is inherently and objectively more "negative". Negative in the sense that it says you have an incureable disease. More negative doesn't mean it's better or worse or more or less appropriate for a specific person, but it will always sound harsher, because it is.

Watson wrote on 22 Nov 2016 21:12:

My point from here is I'm not going to push you either way, and I don't think reading 12 step stuff is harmful, even if you do smart. heck, Rabbi Twerski wrote a  book based on 12 steps for non addicts ( I think one its called waking up just in time)

This thread has got me thinking, and I have a serious question. If you read through most of the threads here on GYE, especially the older ones there was "Dov" and co, who promoted the "12 Step" method and then there were the ones who cried, "The Torah and mussar has everything covered." They would say, we don't want to hear anything that doesn't have a source in the sefarim, I don't care if it works or doesn't, if it was right, it would be somewhere in the seforim etc.

I find it fascinating that here, the 12 steppers are the ones "protecting G-d" wow, that's a strange to me.

So my question is this, I understand that GYE is spending tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars on this new Flight 2 Freedom program and that it's based of of the SMART recovery program. Is it being built at least with the little amount of G-d that is in the 12 steps or is it forgetting about Him entirely. What I mean by this is, while the severe "struggler" may not relate to the spiritual issues and focusing on it doesn't help them, bringing G-d into their lives does.

The new program, it seems, is being built for those who are not "powerless" (otherwise it really makes no sense). I understand that the target crowd is indeed not addicts, and that they may very well be the majority of those struggling. The ones who are not so deep into this, the ones who are falling here and there, the ones who are still unmarried the ones who it hasn't affected their life that much, what the the real reason that they want to stop? Is in not G-d? Is there a different reason? 

The new program sounds amazing, I am all for it, I am just wondering if G-d is going to make an appearance.

wilnevergiveup wrote on 13 Jun 2021 08:23:

Now that the "Flight to freedom" is already being used for a few months, we can revisit the comment above.
First of all, SMART recovery is for addicts just as the 12 step is. They just have a different approach.
 "Flight to freedom" has many concepts from the SMART recovery program with many added ideas and tools. They do have God in the program like prayers and meditation. 

DavidT wrote on 27 Oct 2021 17:37:

You used the flight2freedom program? Does it work? 

Do you have an agenda? Why bring up an old and dead thread?

wilnevergiveup wrote on 27 Oct 2021 21:24:

have some mercy on him, dont you see that he is having a personal issue with sa but needs help, or is new to smart and feels like he needs to get the message out, its the same as being constipated, i also feel from time to time like constipated about sa.

wilnevergiveup wrote on 27 Oct 2021 21:24:

Yes. I actually use it to help other people (LIVE not virtually). It really does help. I see great progress in the people that are dedicating themselves to follow the program. 

​Ans YES! I have an agenda. I'm an undercover agent for flight2freedom LLC and I want them to earn HUGE profits (by helping many more people one day at a time)