I don't think BHBH meant people are making comments about or to his wife. That really would not normally happen in an Orthodox community (regardless of how anyone was dressed).
I think he meant he suspects people of looking at or fantasizing about his wife. Which he considers offensive objectification when they are doing it to her (or when he even thinks they might be doing it to her) but didn't bother him when he did it to someone else's wife/sister. Which was the point of your very thoughtful and well-articulated post.

chosemyshem wrote on 24 Jul 2024 14:14:

Yes, thank you Shem.
And to add another detail, it doesn't have to be orthodox people. It applies to anyone anywhere. I don't want anyone objectifying my wife - for example when she's at her secular job and working with all people of the world.

Day 139  
I recently installed WebChaver on my Mac laptop but not yet on my phone. Now, a relapse is worth 5 hours of work!

I had to delete and reinstall Covenant Eyes to make it work. But while it was off my devices, I felt temptations to watch porn. I've been nine days without porn—no hardcore, no bikini pics, no sex scenes, nothing. But having that freedom is challenging.

I just have to keep reminding myself that this is immoral. Even the image in your mind of someone you know or don't is exploitative. They may not read your mind, but G-D can.

Much like air pressure, we've been conditioned not to feel G-D's presence. But with meditation and practice, we can remember G-D is the breeze, the air in your lungs, the grumble in your stomach. G-D is everywhere. G-D is the ultimate multitasker, and we must be aware of that. Fearing but not terrorized, relentless but not unforgiving of our sins.

I don't know if I will relapse, as my network is having trouble and I cannot currently reinstall it on my phone, though it is on my laptop. But I will be the Free Lion!

WOW! Shining star!

כשושנה בין החוחים (Like a rose between all the thorns...)!

Keep soaring!

What kind of job does she work. Is she surrounded by men. If so that must be stressful and I empathize with you!

lionfree wrote on 28 Jul 2024 13:41:

Shalom LionFree,
Thank you.
She's not specifically surrounded by men. That could be a different issue and wasn't the main point.
It could happen anywhere. The grocery store, school carpool, a doctor's appointment, walking down the street, etc. 

Anyone who is lusting after woman (even their own wife) is objectifying them. I don't care about you, I just want to use what you are for my own purposes. When it comes to my wife, I'm bothered if, for example, anyone would stare at her. Do I make sure not to stare at anyone else's wife? 

It is inappropriate and wrong to objectify women. That's what I did, I knew it was wrong, and I did it anyways because of lust. Maybe if i had been more thoughtful and sensitive to this hypocrisy, it could have helped me lust less. I should have cared a lot and I didn't care enough. 

So I'm saying that we can benefit from internalizing this realization and use it as a tool to help work on de-objectifying the women that we use when we lust. That is someone's wife, sister, daughter, or anyone, and we have no permission to treat them as ours to use.

Day 161

It has been 31 days since I watched porn making monumental progress. I still masturbated but resisted porn for two reasons. 1 I purposefully placed holy books like Chumash and siddur in my room, which I knew would be sacrilegious if I tried anything nearby. Secondly, I had Webchaver, which helped me because I didn't want to lose $100!

For the first part of the 31 days, I was in yeshiva, so I was surrounded by spiritual energy. In the second half, I had come so far that it felt ridiculous to come back.

Today, however, I found that Webchaver was not on my Mac as I thought it was. Not wanting to go to the bathroom with my laptop, making it obvious I was watching porn, I stayed in my room and did the sin. 

I am in a new apartment away from home, so perhaps it made me vulnerable. I also am feeling lonely as I am not around Jews interested in spirituality. The school year hasn't started yet, so I have less motivation to be productive. I also surrendered my dog to the shelter after having her for a week and experiencing severe difficulties. So basically, I was weakened spiritually, emotionally, and mentally. 

Of course, it would have been easy to stop. I could have installed Webchaver properly once I knew what was up, but I didn't. Instead, I went for it like an animal.  

There were times in the last week when I thought about relapsing but realized it would cost me money. I didn't, but as soon as I took the opportunity to sin, I did. 

I know that I can do even better next time. I have no actual reason to relapse. But I also feel sad that I gave up so quickly. 

Perhaps find a way of socializing with religious Jews virtually, either with your Rabbi or through a shiur. Another option is to find a learning partner through torahmates.org. I hope you already installed Webchaver. By now, you should know what your triggers are and you should be able to find tools in the toolbox for each trigger. I haven't been following your thread recently so you may be doing this already but it is worth reading 10 pages or listening to one or two chapters a week of the book The Battle of the Generation. 

Day 163

Yesterday, I relapsed again. Webchaver only scans your search history on web browsers, not apps. So, I watched some spicy videos on my phone.

 I want to be in a place where I can access all the spicy stuff, but I feel confident that I will not give in. I am aware of the Abstinence violation effect and am trying to deal with it. Even while writing this, I feel urges. When I think I am being watched, I behave, but when I realize I am not, I go wild. 

I made it 31 days free. How could I give in? Why am I so impulsive? 

Are you able to delete those apps? Are you open to having an Orthodox filter on your phone? If you are open to considering it you can contact someone here: https://guardyoureyes.com/protection

The following is an excerpt from the 40-day email program on GYE:

True progress comes from building inner strength AND using tools to support your goals. That's where filters come in. Let's compare it to someone trying to lose weight: their goal is to make healthier choices, but it's smart to clear unhealthy food out of the house, too!

For our journey, filters work similarly. They:

·         Act as a Barrier: Filters limit immediate access, giving you a chance to rethink an impulse.

·         Support Your Goals: They create an online environment that aligns with what you're working towards.

·         Provide Protection: They're like an insurance policy when your defenses might be down.

The problem is that I am used to the iPhone. And I do get some utility out of an iPhone, such as listening to podcasts (many about Judaism), digital payments, audiobooks, maps apps, a good camera, etc. If I lived in an insular frum community, it would be much easier, as I would have everything I need. But right now, I am at university, and I will struggle if I do not have a smartphone, as I know it would be better without one.  

As for the filters many of them are very expensive. 

lionfree wrote on 21 Aug 2024 20:49:

Dude you went 31 days (in a tough environment). You care clearly not impulsive. You're dealing with real, tough urges.

Could you imagine a year ago that you'd go 31 days without porn?

Re: the iphone. I don't know if there's a TAG office near you, and if there's not they can help you remotely. But there's a cheap filter called MB smart (or even iphone restrictions if done right) that can lock down the app store. So you only have access to the apps you need. Contact them to learn more.

Obviously, the best filter is the one you don't touch. But a good filter is very helpful to keeping things at bay.

You wrote before that you're in a tough environment. Social activity is very helpful for staying clean - nothing to do with getting involved in Torah activities or anything. Just real human connection. Make some friends, get out of the house, call some guys from the forums and chill. Just something to get busy with life.

lionfree wrote on 21 Aug 2024 21:11:

Did you check the prices? Since you are single, GYE may be able to help you pay for it if you can't afford it. See the email address in the link I posted.

You can talk to them about the different filters, how they work, what they will block and what they won't block. You have to consider the losses incurred by having an unfiltered device versus the losses incurred by having a filter before making a decision.

The MB smart filter has limited filtering. It may be what you want but if you want something that will filter better it may be worth going through the link in my previous post and asking GYE which filter they are willing to pay for. You can see the basic differences between filters over here:
https://tagatlanta.org/filters/

I would suggest that no matter which filter you get you should go through the link in my previous post. You aren't coming originally from a religious background and it is probably important for you to know exactly which types of content each filter will block and whether the filter can be adjusted to meet your needs.