MayanHamisgaber wrote on 25 Apr 2017 16:33:

Either God is driving or we are controlling / slamming on the brakes. (in this analogy as I understand it)
Let go and let God means no brakes to suddenly decide to take control with.
Its not a simple discussion, although its easy to talk about.... it is a core part of the 'problem' though.
I am not saying I am there. I am just saying that I am now working on not letting anything but God drive.

MayanHamisgaber wrote on 25 Apr 2017 16:33:




In this picture the driver(s) floored the brake pedal and emergency brake, as they slide on their 'same old same old' game

GS 
This one of the major differences between addicts and non addicts and is indeed not simple

Markz
I try not to get on the road/drivers seat when things are slippery and dangerous but obviously I am not perfect

MayanHamisgaber wrote on 25 Apr 2017 16:58:

I accept this.
I also think non-addicts could gain a lot from letting God drive.
The question is what should addicted non-addicts do

I wouldn't know ask Markz

I just want to thank everyone for taking time to reach out and help me and sorry if I come of as cross or mad just feeling down and frustrated and it doesn't help that I only slept 1 1/2 hrs last night coming off the plane 

Thank you all

MayanHamisgaber wrote on 25 Apr 2017 17:05:

GrowStrong wrote on 25 Apr 2017 17:02:

I don't think that's a question
Not being an addict this reincarnation, I may be talking from inexperience

All of us can only survive with Gd in the driver seat
An addict has a more difficult time allowing Gd in

Can someone define clearly what it means to be in the drivers seat?

MayanHamisgaber wrote on 25 Apr 2017 18:46:

When a cop pulls a guy over for speeding, the driver gets the ticket, while the passenger gets nothing.

MayanHamisgaber wrote on 25 Apr 2017 18:46:

This may help with your question:
My relationship with God is a two-way relationship. A common AA phrase is "Without Him I can't, without me He won't." Sitting on my butt all day and expecting my life to change is a fantasy. Yet, I have learned that I know only a little and many things are out of my control. In the middle of that is my relationship. I believe that I'm in charge of the efforts and God is in charge of my results. Not getting into a religious discussion here, I believe that every day I have choices to make. I can choose healthy ones or not healthy ones. I can choose things that will lead me closer to God and recovery and I can choose things that will lead me further astray. It's up to me. But ultimately, this world runs on God's will (not Dunkin') and He is the provider of all sustenance. I cannot change His will. But I need to be connected to Him in order to receive his gifts. I like to think of it as electricity. A power cable is nothing but potential. That potential cannot be activated unless it is plugged into the source. I'm the cable and God is the source. So long as I'm not plugged in I can't receive his power. (There are limitations to this mashal but it makes a good point).

So I actually believe that I'm in the drivers seat. I'm the one responsible for making the decisions. But God is the one who gives me what I need. In addiction, I never got what I wanted. In recovery, I am gifted constantly. That's just my experience. Is it merely a change of attitude? Possibly. But I am seeing miracles occurring now that did not occur when I was acting out. The most basic and profound miracle of all is that I'm sober. That's definitely from Him. No idea how the hell I'm sober. It's straight-up insane.

In terms of "Let Go and Let God," that is a necessity for an addict because addiction is a disease of self-will. My problem is not lust or alcohol. It's self-will. So I need my life to be completely devoted to my HP because without that I am going to be back in my disease. I can't speak for non-addicts. Don't really understand them. Especially Mark.

Shlomo24 wrote on 26 Apr 2017 03:15:

Beautiful Shlomo that was exactly what I was hoping to hear.
​Not getting into a religious discussion....but the way you said it I understand to mean that I still have b'chira to chose which way I go but after that Hashem will guide me down that path as much as I let him.
This is what I meant that my passenger side has their own brake and access to the emergency brake perhaps I should add their own gas pedal and steering wheel too....

Let me know if I am making ant sense hear anyones comments are appreciated as I am just trying to get things clear and this area seems to be very hazy to many as to me it seems that there is a common ground here for addicts and non-addicts but also this is the dividing line too...

p.s. bb I thimk Shlomo's post is a way of explaining what you were trying to say. Am I correct?

Oh and by the way I don't fully get Markz either but he is a reliable friend and knows how to explain himself    

MayanHamisgaber wrote on 25 Apr 2017 18:46:

In recovery I am hearing a lot about whats driving me.
In active addiction the obsession and then the craving comes to medicate life.
And then we are driven by the addiction.. But whats really 'driving us' is fears, resentments, shame.
I think this is the same for addicts and non addicts in the main.
Non-addicts living a balanced life might say they are driven by ambition and love and selflessness.
Normal heilige yidden might say they are driven by Fear of God and Love of God and his creation.
The point is that everyone is being driven by urges, feelings, desires and intellect.
As Shlomo pointed out, addicts are driven by a loss of self will. Which is why its so important to Let God Drive.
But this is a lesson for humanity.
At any moment in the day we need to ask ourselves (addicts and non-addicts) What is Driving Me.
We all have middot we need to work on constantly, if we didn't we would either be doing tikkun olam all the time as an emissary of God or we would have completed our task and not be here.
So when I lose the plot because the kids are going wild and the wife is sick in bed and I am unable to handle the situation I am being driven by negative forces of resentment and anger and selfishness.
What do all these middot represent.
A lack of emunah that Hashem is literally running everything, its all from Him.
This is basic mussar.
So, what we are discussing is getting to a point that everything that happens to us, both for the good and the bad, doesn't upset our equilibrium. There are two ways to do that.
To repress or to face it. Repressing it causes mounds of negativity. Facing it means being constantly aware of myself and the world around me.
Addicts are very very bad at facing life. So they need to go to the extreme of being constantly aware of what is driving them right now and ask God constantly what He would have them do.
The third step prayer is a perfect example of it as is the fourth step prayer for our fears.
The third step prayer isn't something you do once and then move on to step 4.
Its a daily renewal of asking God to show you at all moments how to act and how to react.
When I get angry or hold resentments, It is clear that something has gone awry.
Something is off.
Why is this relevant to addicts and non-addicts alike? Because as you saw while back 'home' - 'most' people are driven by selfishness and self will and by what they want from life. And those same 'most people' are in the main non-addicts.
Imagine if the world all acted at every moment with emotional equilibrium, asking God at every moment to show them the right way to react and to act in every situation as it occurs.
Shalom Bayis would be a standard. Dare I say there would be a lot less conflict in the world.
We all act and react according to whats driving us.
If we are balanced and aligned then we can drive. Because we are then using Gods GPS and not our own.
But who is balanced and aligned in the world today?
More than 36 people? I don't know. Hard to imagine it.
So i would say like this.
It's OK for us to drive. But we need to use Hashems GPS at all times. And we need to realize we are in a learner car, and God is sitting next to us with the controls.


Addicts are driven by these fears and resentments in active addiction.
Normal people are only driven by these things when they happen and then they go back to being 'normal'.

I don't think this is a religious discussion.
I don't think God is a religious discussion.
But then I also don't think that Judaism is a 'religion'.
This is about each of us and our own personal relationship with Hashem.
Either He is everything or He is nothing.

Thats why I dont think this is about addicts or non-addicts. I think everyone can benefit from this 'mussar'.
I always used Shlomos example of the cable and electricity to explain the Mitzvot. but I see that it  explains living with God constantly in my life much better.

Mayan, do you realize that your challenge a few days ago was the impetus for an incredible education on this thread? The great ba'alei mussar would be so proud of the desire everyone here is displaying to get to the real truth and shed all negius. In one of your posts you apologize for how you may have come across. We have to thank you for your honesty. Iyh you will continue being matzliach.