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Road to 90 days (how I succeeded, and you can too)
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TOPIC: Road to 90 days (how I succeeded, and you can too) 151116 Views

Re: Road to 90 days (how I succeeded, and you can too) 22 Feb 2017 15:44 #306495

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Gevura Shebyesod wrote on 22 Feb 2017 15:15:

Yosef Tikun HaYesod wrote on 22 Feb 2017 12:37:
...
essentially, the only thing that is really messed up is the CONTROL button!
I've got to fix that part of myself, and start exercising more control.
...

Maybe the point is that you shouldn't try to control...

My 'Esc' button is messed up
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Re: Road to 90 days (how I succeeded, and you can too) 22 Feb 2017 17:55 #306501

How do you twist around: "I've got to fix that part of myself, and start exercising more control."??
(It's rhetorical...if you must, please respond only by email or PM)

Someone who is "out of control" and isn't able to control his tyvahs/desires and restrain them, is weak.
It's a negative thing, and a chesoron that he has to work on.
In contrast, someone who is "in control" and is able to exercise shlita/control over his speech, thoughts, and actions is a Tzadik. 

I asked my first Rosh HaYeshiva how do we know what it means when HaShem sends us yisurin.
The Gemara says to look into your actions, if some yisurim come.
But how do I know what it corresponds to? He answered that HaShem makes it clear to the person,
that whatever he comes up with as the thing to fix, that is exactly what HaShem had intended. The person has the siata d'shamaya to accurately receive the message.

Maybe for a different person, the message would be to give up control and accept that he is powerless...
or whatever. I'm not denying that. What I'm saying is that the person himself knows.

Re: Road to 90 days (how I succeeded, and you can too) 22 Feb 2017 17:59 #306503

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A person needs to control himself. But we have to stop trying to control our circumstances, the world, other people, and the results of our efforts.
!אנא עבדא דקודשא בריך הוא

וּבְיָדְךָ כֹּחַ וּגְבוּרָה וּבְיָדְךָ לְגַדֵּל וּלְחַזֵּק לַכֹּל


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"Sometimes a hard decision leads to an easier outcome."
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Re: Road to 90 days (how I succeeded, and you can too) 22 Feb 2017 18:12 #306506

True, Gevura. That's a nice distinction!
I had to read it a few times to really get it, but I got it .

Re: Road to 90 days (how I succeeded, and you can too) 22 Feb 2017 20:54 #306530

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Gevura Shebyesod wrote on 22 Feb 2017 15:15:

Yosef Tikun HaYesod wrote on 22 Feb 2017 12:37:
...
essentially, the only thing that is really messed up is the CONTROL button!
I've got to fix that part of myself, and start exercising more control.
...

Maybe the point is that you shouldn't try to control...

If someone  can  be in control, why shouldnt he?
Feel free to contact me at michelgelner@gmail.com

My threads: Lessons Learned: guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/335248-Lessons-Learned

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Re: Road to 90 days (how I succeeded, and you can too) 22 Feb 2017 21:49 #306550

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Heh, nothing at all wrong with trying to be more in control. But you said it and I will quote you:

"If someone CAN be in control, then why shouldn't he?"

I am a powerless but sober sex and lust addict who works the 12 steps in SA, bH. But I still want to vomit whenever i see people here on GYE of all places trying to convince every guy who masturbates that he must be an addict and needs to surrender to win (as we addicts do and it works for us).

No, I do not think that this was what GS meant that you should surrender the way we addicts do. He didn't write that. What he wrote was "MAYBE the point is that you shouldn't try to control..." All he did was suggest an option. I think that's quite thoughtful and innocent.

So You are both right, in my opinion, for whatever it's worth. Instead of looking for disagreements wherever they may be, it might bear more fruit for us to see the truth in nearly everything someone writes, under specific circumstances.

Practically for this suffering guy, I'd suggest considering what GS said because he obviously has a poor track record. Some of us have a slightly poor track record, and some have a horrifyingly poor track record, and then some have dismal ones...and some worse.

If he has failed consistently for a long time and really plays with himself frequently and has tried battering it with self-will and religiosity for a long time and that has not worked...then I feel pretty sure that defending his right to be a moron and keep trying to control it, is cruelty and actually assur al pi halocha because of ona'ah - hurting a fellow Jew, a bitul of a few mitzvos asei and certainly an issur d'oraiso of lifnei iver.

But I am not saying you are doing that. For the truth that all this pivots on, is not yours but only his to know.

That OK?.
"Off the 18-wheeler and fine on this tricycle!", "I do not particularly care exactly which "lav" suicide is. I'm not interested in it for other reasons...and you are probably the same."

Re: Road to 90 days (how I succeeded, and you can too) 22 Feb 2017 22:16 #306557

I said my peace in 306501. Gevura, who you are calling GS
(confusing, because we call GoingStrong, GS), understood and said Thank You.
He responded and clarified in 306503, and I understood and thanked him in my next post.
We're all good. 
-------
Your last long paragraph is beyond comment. But if you're asking MY opinion, it's not o.k.

Re: Road to 90 days (how I succeeded, and you can too) 23 Feb 2017 08:14 #306609

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Yosef, could you add to whom you're replying below your bottom line, like @Dov, or something. I remember you did it a whiiile ago, it just makes the conversation flow better.

Or consider a course in quotery ;-)
"Vegeta, what does the scouter say about his sobriety level?"
"... It's over NINE-ZEROOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!"

One day... At A Time :-D


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Re: Road to 90 days (how I succeeded, and you can too) 23 Feb 2017 12:38 #306619

Double digits, baby!

Man, yesterday was rough!
I think A LOT of it was self-imposed, though. I need to relax and not let things bother me.

I thought someone on my group thread was looking for help out of a stressful situation,
so I wrote back that he should just get out of there, leave his computer, and take a walk outside...
get a hot drink and a cookie. Well, Boruch HaShem, it occurred to me as I was writing to him,
that I need to hear what I'm telling him to do and take my OWN advice! So, I left immediately.
It was fantastic. Fresh, cold air, a bakery with hot items coming out all the time.
Stepping away from it helped me a lot.

This is not a license to say insensitive remarks that are likely to bother me,
but I should be more in control of my reactions and step back from it,
so that they don't even bother me in the first place.
Last Edit: 23 Feb 2017 12:40 by Yosef Tikun HaYesod.

Re: Road to 90 days (how I succeeded, and you can too) 23 Feb 2017 13:21 #306626

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Your beard looks weird.


Ooops.


No I'm sure you beard is just fine.

Keep on Growing! Keep the KOGs turning!
"Vegeta, what does the scouter say about his sobriety level?"
"... It's over NINE-ZEROOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!"

One day... At A Time :-D


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Re: Road to 90 days (how I succeeded, and you can too) 26 Feb 2017 11:27 #306819

Happy Rosh Chodesh, everyone!
13 days clean so far. 
I have wanted to watch episodes and/or movies quite a lot...but haven't given in
to that desire. That's very big news for me...and thanks in large part to the incentive
system that Boruch HaShem I helped put in place.
Now there are 2 competing yetzer haras, and as long as I want the incentive more than
the streaming (which leads to wasting eventually...haroeh es hanolad), 
then I will keep succeeding, b'ezras HaShem!

new Rav Shechter Torah/story

Re: Road to 90 days (how I succeeded, and you can too) 26 Feb 2017 13:20 #306828

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Keep it up Yosef. Staying away from movies will give you extra syatta d'shmaya from Hashem who sees your sacrifice of adding more kedusha to your life. A friend of mine who used to read secular newspapers and then stopped, commented that while he was reading them daily,he never realized the subtle effect it had on him. Once he  had stopped for about a month, he was able to understand what he had gained by stopping. Similarly, iyh as you wean yourself away from movies, you will see your mindset slowly change. Your head will be cleansed more and more and will become a "kli kibbul" where Hashem can shower more and more brocho. Besides the psychological benefit of breaking this habit, there will be "neshomo benefit".
Feel free to contact me at michelgelner@gmail.com

My threads: Lessons Learned: guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/335248-Lessons-Learned

                    My Story and G-d Bless GYE: guardyoureyes.com/forum/17-Balei-Battims-Forum/303036-My-story-and-G-d-bless-GYE

Re: Road to 90 days (how I succeeded, and you can too) 26 Feb 2017 20:14 #306857

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Yosef Tikun HaYesod wrote on 22 Feb 2017 17:55:
How do you twist around: "I've got to fix that part of myself, and start exercising more control."??
(It's rhetorical...if you must, please respond only by email or PM)

Someone who is "out of control" and isn't able to control his tyvahs/desires and restrain them, is weak.
It's a negative thing, and a chesoron that he has to work on.
In contrast, someone who is "in control" and is able to exercise shlita/control over his speech, thoughts, and actions is a Tzadik. 

I asked my first Rosh HaYeshiva how do we know what it means when HaShem sends us yisurin.
The Gemara says to look into your actions, if some yisurim come.
But how do I know what it corresponds to? He answered that HaShem makes it clear to the person,
that whatever he comes up with as the thing to fix, that is exactly what HaShem had intended. The person has the siata d'shamaya to accurately receive the message.

Maybe for a different person, the message would be to give up control and accept that he is powerless...
or whatever. I'm not denying that. What I'm saying is that the person himself knows.

My question to you...and it is not a challenge, nor a rhetorical question and I am not trying 'get at anything'. Your answer means a lot, so I ask:

How do you think the person himself comes to know this?
"Off the 18-wheeler and fine on this tricycle!", "I do not particularly care exactly which "lav" suicide is. I'm not interested in it for other reasons...and you are probably the same."

Re: Road to 90 days (how I succeeded, and you can too) 26 Feb 2017 21:50 #306869

This was addressed and answered in my post.
The Gemara says he should look into his actions.
I asked the Rosh HaYeshiva, but how is that going to be enough?
How will it be clear, what HaShem intended? Meaning that maybe 
he'll come up with the wrong message? And he answered me, that 
HaShem gives the person siata d'shemaya to discern and find what
the correct message was, why he got that particular yisurim.
He does a cheshbon hanefesh, looks into his deeds/actions, and 
whatever he comes up with, IS the exact thing that HaShem intended
for him to work on and fix.

Re: Road to 90 days (how I succeeded, and you can too) 27 Feb 2017 09:46 #306934

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Yosef Tikun HaYesod wrote on 26 Feb 2017 21:50:
This was addressed and answered in my post.
The Gemara says he should look into his actions.
I asked the Rosh HaYeshiva, but how is that going to be enough?
How will it be clear, what HaShem intended? Meaning that maybe 
he'll come up with the wrong message? And he answered me, that 
HaShem gives the person siata d'shemaya to discern and find what
the correct message was, why he got that particular yisurim.
He does a cheshbon hanefesh, looks into his deeds/actions, and 
whatever he comes up with, IS the exact thing that HaShem intended
for him to work on and fix.

It's lofty, for sure.

But Dov read your post, too. And still asked the question. What's that saying?
"Vegeta, what does the scouter say about his sobriety level?"
"... It's over NINE-ZEROOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!"

One day... At A Time :-D


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