Confused what's still left to answer. I'll go in order. If there are still more questions, just ask them fully:
4th) It felt exciting watching the videos and touching my body and feeling those sensations for the first time in about 30 days. Then, the release felt exactly like that...a release. When I woke up late, I felt that I still hadn't gotten it all out of my system and needed to release a little more. This is a weird question, I hope you know, but I'm answering it honestly. Why not? After that second time, I felt I was now ready to pick myself up again and start again strong. It actually accomplished exactly what I thought it would...only that it was usser. As mentioned before a few times in this thread, if I wasn't Jewish or it wasn't usser, I wouldn't even think that I have a real problem. I exercised a lot of restraint in the last 30 days. The problem is that I am a Jew and it is against ratzone HaShem. Therefore, I am breaking this bad habit, so that I never do it and go against HaShem's will. I don't want to do aveiras. I want to connect to Hashem and have a close relationship with Him. Yes, I'm having quite a difficult time of breaking this bad habit, since it's been going on for so long, and it is a real need (unlike smoking poison).
5th) Changing the time settings was part of falling, for sure. It started days earlier, as I mentioned.
6th) No chocolate bar involved. The incentive is something outside of myself,
that I will only be given when I succeed.
The idea to email and involve more people is to increase the chances that someone will respond
and say the "right words" to talk me "off the ledge". More people won't make me annoyed if they give support, empathy, and encouragement without judgment or criticism. Actually, the more people the better.
7th) When I finish Kodshim, I'll probably review Nashim. Though I would like to learn Taharos,
I think that since it's so long, I may forget Nashim (that I didn't review enough) if I just keep going.
8th) Incentives fight against the morey heters. It will be easier to talk myself out of falling, if it means that I am going to really lose out on something great or big if I fall. And, I will actually get that significantly desirable thing, if I "find the inner strength" to continue and push forward. 
9th) Streaming is evil and is certainly part of falling...which is why I'm going "cold turkey" again.
10th) I've been open and honest with everyone about my experiences and feelings and needs.
11th) That's the point of emailing more people and possibly posting here when I feel I'm about to fall...
in order to increase my chances that someone will help, as mentioned.
Also, once the incentive is in place, it works in the background...and in my mind.

Forgetting Nashim ain't such a bad thing... (for most of you anyway) 



Yosef, you're doing great. Falls will happen, this is a process and instant perfection is not likely nor expected. The main thing is to keep learning what works (and doesn't) and keep pushing forward. 



KOMT!!

Yosef, maybe you don't want to hear this but you are a hero. You withstood an extremely challenging nisayon for many hours before you fell. That is not something the vast majority of the billions of inhabitants on our planet would have done. When we climb a mountain there are ditches and some are deep but as long as we are focused on the summit, we are heading up. Do not get tough on yourself now. Be proud of what you accomplished, something that you didnt think you would be able to.

You are not starting again. You are continuing and you will stay on the same thread because iyh you will be an inspiration and chizuk for countless others.

The mini group i was in also collapsed. Maybe you would be better off asking some of the people you feel are there for you on the forums for their numbers.

We will b'ezras Hashem continue cheering you along as you fulfill your dream of tikun hayesod. Hatzlocha!  

I also came here confused (see my thread) - when i first started in real recovery a few months ago the first thing i did was separated the porn and the masturbation. Kinda like smoking less cigarettes on shabbos.

I will try to ask my questions fully.

1: & 2: Can you identify any difference in your mindset and thoughts while you were acting out getting your particular niche fix from the corner of the internet that you cant escape compared to six months ago when you were not active on this forum and were not counting clean days? Has the past 52 forum pages on this thread had any effect on you at all?

4: So you felt like you were allowing yourself something that you really need? What did the porn have to do with it?
My definition of addiction is doing something i do not want to do but cannot stop myself from doing it. Whats yours? What makes this a bad habit for you and an addiction for me?
Is it because a little bit of porn and masturbation is natural every few weeks and you only want to stop because you are not allowed to do it?
If that's the case - what makes this a bad habit for you and an addiction for me?
5: So you are saying that the stress from life pulled you down and you needed something to make you feel better? And If you were a goy a little bit of porn and masturbation would be a great way to deal with the stress of life?
6: When will you succeed?
What happens a minute after that?
What happens if they criticize (disagree) with your approach?
7: My question was very specific im sorry you didnt get it. When you prepare for the next siyum and another poor 80 year old who sat next to you for the past 14 years passes away and she remains 'ossur' and all that stress comes together and you need to release with a little bit of porn and masturbation, and no one is able to talk you off the ledge, will you still then deny that maybe you need to have a more honest conversation with yourself about why you are turning to this bad habit and about how maybe there is underlying feelings and emotions that caused you to look at porn and masturbate - or will this just be a bad habit forever.
8: Whats the amazingly desirable incentive that you are going to give yourself and at what point in your journey will you get that? What will happen the day after you attain that goal if you cant break your bad habit the next day and 'fall'?
9: I have been streaming videos since i started to recover, I have Spicer calming me down in live stream in the background while I type this to you... I think its more about what you stream. Do you have no issue with real live women? For me porn makes the streets an interesting place in the daytime...
10: I was directly specifically and exclusively referring to YOU. Twice.

Hope this was all clearer this time, I hope i am not offending, I just feel that there is more going on here than just a bad habit. And i dont assume its an addiction thats fully blown. Or an emotional disorder. Or just a normal goy in a jews gooof.

I answered all your questions twice. I'll try once more, but it's starting to become clear that you are not really asking me questions, but rather trying to convince me of something. This is starting to feel like a guy on the plane who asks me lots of questions. I take the time to answer them all...or most of them, get a few clarified, and answer them all again. Then, he asks me a third time, and adds: how we are different and why do I feel that j.c. is not my god, when he believes that he is.
Please don't get offended, but you must see the similarities.

1)There is no difference in my mindset and thoughts while I'm acting out. I shut off the usser/mutar part of my brain, and allow myself to indulge in a counterfeit pleasure of having great sex with some hot model. The porn helps this fantasy become way more realistic, and my hands do a good enough job that I don't need to seek out an actual woman to have sex with.
2) The 52 pages have helped me discover what I need to succeed. And this forum thread has given me an opportunity to vent and share my struggle and hopefully help others. I have met 2 different "success stories" that I wouldn't have met, and their help will hopefully be ongoing. Also, many people have given me encouragement along the way, to keep trying and to not give up.
4) just answered...it helps with the fantasy and gets me more into it (weird question-land again, but answered honestly). dictionary.com says:
"the state of being enslaved to a habit or practice or to something that is psychologically or physically habit-forming, as narcotics, to such an extent that its cessation causes severe trauma."
merriam-webster.com says: "compulsive need for and use of a habit-forming substance
(such as heroin, nicotine, or alcohol) characterized by tolerance and by well-defined physiological symptoms upon withdrawal." I am not enslaved to it. Someone addicted is. I do not experience severe trauma when I restrain for a month or so. Someone addicted may. I do not feel a compulsive need to act out. If my wife was available or the incentive had come through, I believe I would not have acted out. Someone addicted still would have. And I have not experienced any degree of tolerance, which merriam-webster.com defines as: " the capacity of the body to endure or become less responsive to a substance (such as a drug) or a physiological insult, especially with repeated use or exposure (developed a tolerance to painkillers)." Someone addicted does experience this.
5) I'd rather stick with my words than yours. This isn't really a question. I expressed my feelings.
6. I'm succeeding right now. Hopefully, I will continue succeeding. If someone criticizes my approach, he really isn't doing it for me. Because I have been very clear that I do not respond well to that. And I don't want that. I just want a little support and encouragement. Seems pretty simple and straightforward.
7) he was in his 50's. If, G-d forbid, all those same factors come together again (which isn't that likely, since there were around 6 or more big factors, but whatever), then yes, I would have a big nisayon and based on previous experience, probably fall and indulge/go back to the same bad habit. There is a chance I would succeed, and an even greater chance, IF I first work hard on it now (which is what I'm doing), and get rid of this bad habit, so that it is no longer my "go to" thing when I get all "messed up/thrown off balance". Additionally, I can start to work on not getting so "messed up/thrown off balance", though not sure how.
8) I feel that this isn't really a question. But I will say that it is structured to be a big thing that speaks to me (that I really want to receive) after 30 days clean, only if I make it all 30 days in a row. And then there is a second component to the incentive, that if I can continue for another 30 days clean (meaning at the end of 30 days, that is connected to the 30 days that came before it), then I will receive double! This way, I won't just fall the day after, because I will miss out on the "double" at the end of the next 30 days.
This will help me do that which I already want to do on my own. And over time, maybe after 180 days clean, and no streaming videos giving me foreign ideas and garbage images, I will hopefully be a lot stronger, and the hold and grip that the bad habits have on me will be a lot weaker. So that I'll be able to continue succeeding even without the incentive system.
9) I used to (yesterday, I went "cold turkey") stream episodes, lots of them, and occasionally movies. They almost ALL have usser scenes, usser themes, usser (improperly) dressed model hot women in them. Let's be honest. 
I stay away from live, hot women pretty well and live in a frum community. 
10) wow. I answered you twice: 10. Outwardly you were on a real high (over here) - was that the case inside? (I've been completely honest with my feelings and quite open about everything) meaning YES.
tocho k'boro...no faking...no lying to myself or anybody else.

There is nothing more going on here. Watson and maybe others wondered the same thing. 
There is no addiction, no emotional disorder, no goy trapped in a Jewish body.
I'm just a Jew striving to be better, trying to break a bad habit, that has proven very difficult. My goal of completely eliminating these bad habits for good has been elusive...and I have stumbled many times. I am not giving up. I want a strong, close connection to HaShem, and He knows that and values every effort I am making to succeed. And I will get there. Perhaps instead of labeling me or trying to define me or convince me of something, so that I can be squeezed into something more like you, despite not fitting into that compartment, you can just try to be supportive and encouraging to a fellow Jew? That's my 1 question to you (and the others who silently read this, but don't offer any support).

Anyone following this thread knows that this new conversation has already been had before, and by bringing it up again we are back on the merry go round. 
I will voice my support for Yosef. I know that his writing style can be irksome and he may say say things that rub people the wrong way. I would know because he's said a number of things in the past that I found really bothersome. But the truth is if there's no argument here. Yosef has admitted a number of times that he has a problem and needs support. Isn't that the point of the forums? Who cares if he insists he's not an "addict" of that if he wasn't frum is wouldn't be a problem. It's irrelevant to the conversation. The fact is he is a frum Jew who is struggling and is aware that he has a problem. He is taking concrete steps to address the problem and is no longer talking about silly things like who has his filter password. He has grown a lot.  We need to recognize his growth and give him Chizuk to continue. 

Lifnei,

Well said. Yosef, I for one think you've come such a long way. I think some of the more experienced people see some instances that they think you might be fooling yourself, but I guess we all do that. I know I do. 

However, I do take issue with your demainding feedback and assistance because no one owes you anything. 

That at being said, as they say, you've come a long way baby, and I think you're a good guy and I've grown to understand you much better. 

I don't think you are a full blown sex addict. I think you have a compulsion that you cannot control, that brought you here to get help and support to stop doing it. And your release is orgasm + fantasy. You choose it over going to find a women or your wife to release that need.
I understand that.
You clearly don't spend most of the day thinking about sex.
But when the going gets tough or you hit a certain threshold you lose the ability to say no to yourself.
Its irrelevant what label we put on you to define your little corner of the world, but lets call it 'Yosef'
So what i do think is that for 'Yosef' when he needs his fix to feel better, he goes to orgasm + fantasy.
And 'Yosef' is having trouble stopping this behavior. And he wants our support with this bad habit to help break it.
I googled the following - "what is it called if you do something compulsively without being able to stop it"
Googles fourth result was https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsive_behavior
Its an interesting read, especially the second paragraph.
What I also think is that you don't realize fully that you are in a 'virtual community' with 100 active people who have the same problem as you but for them/us/me its not something that comes up once every few weeks when we feel low, its something that has overtaken our lives and ability to be 'normal'.
For you 'cold turkey' is stopping to watch the 'Real housewives of monsey' and 'The Bochur' or 'The Maidel' (hameyvin mevin) whereas for us it is far more depraved and way more painful and emotional.
I am sorry for not being a support here really for you in this latest fall of yours but I am finding it hard to have empathy now that you have to stop streaming drek.
I just want you to understand who you are in the room with.
Your problems are the same as our problems, the only difference is that our lives became unbearable whereas your bad habit is stopping you from davening with kavanna.
You want to find a group of people who are not addicts in a forum of addicts.
OK enough postulation its getting late.
Here is my practical advice.
1: As a non addict with these tendencies I advise you to get more involved with us addicts and give us the support we need to break our addiction. It will help you to step out of yourself and give you perspective.
Believe me we need all the support we can get.
2: GUARD YOUR EYES: By stopping streaming actresses you have taken the correct real step and from it you should only see brochah. The longer you make concerted efforts to not look at women or their body parts however they get to your eyes, the more real strength you will have when you come close to falling.
3: Change the name of this thread and keep the current title for when you hit 90 days.
4: Here is the harder one. Don't rely on anyone to help you succeed. The only thing in this world that will bring you to success is YOU with Hashem's help. That means at some point you are going to have to look inside and talk to the person who compulsively needs to release after a few hard days in a row and discuss the reasons with that person (you) and the underlying emotions behind them. Find out what triggers YOU emotionally and learn about that part of your self. If it is stress then work on ways to fix it. If it is loneliness then work on ways to deal with it. If it is anger then work on ways to kill it. For me I have found that having a qualified therapist who understands these things to be a great help. If you can do it by yourself then even better.

GS,

That was a powerful post; inspiring for me too. 

Yosef,
Please don't take GS's post the wrong way; I heard a lot of care for you in it. 

Here is something that Watson is fond of writing when he welcomes someone new. Please read it (and my whole post in its entirety twice)...(I read yours twice before deciding to comment and once more before deciding to hit submit. I think you probably meant well, but I can't help how I feel receiving your post):
"Welcome. You're in the right place.
First of all please take time to read through the GYE handbook.  No two people are the same, everyone has a slightly different set of circumstances, but we all share this problem and since we share the problem we can share the solution too. The book is written in a general way so it can apply to everyone. I found it helpful to really think about what the book was saying and how it applied to me and my own life.

This is a very common problem nowadays, you're far from the only one to deal with it. The word addict gets thrown around quite a lot, but most people who struggle with this issue are not addicts, just normal people with a normal yetzer hora. Which is good. Some people have come to realise that they really are addicts because their situation got gradually worse and worse despite working on it. When I say worse I mean, in frequency, severity or just feeling worse after every slip. If that is the case we may need more than GYE, which most people find to be therapy or SA or both. But I wouldn't jump to that conclusion about you. Many people have overcome this challenge right here on GYE using the tools in the handbook.

So stick around. Keep posting, keep reading and keep on trucking."
---------------
He has got 1235 posts! But you know better.
Yeah, there is some concern and care that comes through from your post, and I appreciate that.
But MAN, I read your post twice, and thought about what Workingguy wrote, and still can't believe
the incredible chutzpah you have to suggest (or even to think) that my problems are less important than anybody else's. That I don't belong here. My little problems don't measure up somehow to the big boys. Simply unbelievable!
I just fell hard. And then picked myself back up again and had the courage to be open and honest about it, and wrote a post on my own thread to get a little pick-me-up and chizuk.
You can't say a few lines of comfort and encouragement like Gevura did? He's got 3321 posts! But you know better. He is a genius at it and usually adds a little levity (the joke about forgetting Nashim not being such a bad idea). No, you've got to ask 20 questions. And I answered them.
Your 2nd to the last post crossed a little over the line, and I called you out on it. Now, maybe say some encouraging words or leave it alone. No, you've got to tell me my problems are insignificant compared to others, and that I am in a virtual room of addicts where I don't belong. Doesn't matter what Watson says or what Guard says, right? You know better. What an unbelievable chutzpah!

Enough about the first half of your last post. I'll end with this.
You give me your advice in your second half of the post. Yet here's what I wrote on Jan. 27th:
What I am looking for at this point is just a friendly, safe place to share my experiences
as I journey toward successfully breaking free from this terrible bad habit...
a place to receive encouragement to continue growing and pushing forward,
a place where people who share some idea of the difficulty of the nisayon I'm going through
are willing to hear me out and express their understanding and empathy,
and try to pick me up and support me, so that I don't give up and totally fail.
I'll work out the strategies/game plan on my own from now on, with the help of a live coach/success story.

Enjoy this great dvar Torah from R. Yechiel Spero from a Sefer Emunah Bacharti:
"There is a difference between the term "Melacha" that we refer to when we talk about the 39 things that one is not allowed to do on shabbos, and the term "Avodah". Avodah, hard work is not forbidden. For instance, if one wanted or needed to schlep tables and chairs from the third floor to the first floor, it's entirely permissible, even though you are sweating and working hard. However, if one does a creative action, that is called a melacha and that is strictly forbidden on Shabbos.
But that's when it comes to Shabbos.
Hashem, when He asks us to serve Him, it is not called melacha. It is called avodah. We strive to be "Avdei Hashem", we work on our avodas Hashem. Hashem does not need us to do creative things for Him. He doesn't demand of us to finish product. He doesn't necessitate that we do something that is called a melacha. We don't actually have to finish the job necessarily. All Hashem asks of us, is to be an Eved Hashem. To shvitz for the Ribono Shel Olam; to work hard at whatever we are dong. We might succeed, hopefully, we do. But even if we don't, it is still considered to very, very valued and very special in the eyes of Hakadosh Baruch Hu.
That should give us all great encouragement. Sometimes we feel, "C'mon who are we kidding. I am far from perfect". Hashem doesn't need you to be perfect. All He needs you to do is some avodas Hashem, to be His Eved Hashem. Halivay, if one day we can actually earn that incredible appellation."

bb0212 wrote on 14 Feb 2017 14:55:

Ok everybody. Let's start 196 up again. We had a little private email group which was why it was inactive. But I'll ask the oilum to start reposting there. It should be helpful for the rest of the world and also us in the group.

 GS, you have brought up many valid points over the last few posts. A number of them I disagree with. But that's not a big deal, we're all different, we think different etc.
However, one thing:

I just want you to understand who you are in the room with.
He's in the room with me too. Don't define me as the "us" you speak of, I don't consider myself an addict.
To put it very bluntly, speak for yourself. Don't bring up any "you" and "us". While you may not have meant it this way, to me, it came across as elitist, like I'm not really worthy of receiving any help here because I'm just a regular dude. And this place is only for special ppl. Again, that's how I felt when I read it.

 While this is a critical post, don't take this to mean "shut up"; many times I've been very inspired by what you wrote.

In either case, why do we have this forum? Why are we here? It's either help others, be helped, or both. In this case Yosef has made it clear what he wants from this forum & what he doesn't want. What if somebody (let's call him Joe) feels that Yosef is making a mistake and the only help he can give, goes against Yosef's request? Joe can let Yosef know that, and leave the door open for Yosef to ask for that advice, whenever Yosef is gonna be ready (if he'll ever be ready for that)

I have a copy of this post, so if a moderator decides to remove it, it will be reposted free of charge

Yosef Tikun Hayesod wrote:


He didn't say that

Im sorry but this is below the belt

GS was the one and ONLY one to have a detailed discussion with you!!

Every time someone else goes out of his way to chat with you, he gets backlash. 

Cut it out

Reread GS's beautiful posts. You don't like the word "addict"?
Dont use it

You keep falling and you will keep falling until something changes

You seem ok with it. 
Because if you weren't ok with it you'd do things differently today, as I'd do if I'd still be falling

KOS

Keep on spinning

Wow! The emotions coming through here are powerful. You should all be bentched!  I have been in touch with Yaakov at GYE and there is a plan to divide the site into 2 sections. One for addicts and one for non addicts. However in the meantime the GYE site is here for all of us to grow from. I met Rabbi Dr A Y Twersky yesterday and thanked him very much for all he has done for me (us) and felt very comfortable telling him that I am not an addict and didn't use the 12 steps or attend SA meetings (even though that's his expertise) but that my life has been changed by GYE and he has been instrumental in building up this incredible organization. As of now I don't think anyone knows how many addicts or non addicts are on the site. None of us can claim that GYE is presently intended for any specific group. It's here for klal Yisroel. At the same time we can all encourage each other and discuss issues that affect all of us. We can also agree to understand that different people need different mehalchim - and we can agree to disagree (politely of course).

Yosef, from my own experience I relate to your need to release after a certain period of time. I used to hope I would have a wet dream so it should just come out already. And if my wife was off limits I made it come out. If she was muttar, I basically was masturbating inside of her - because it was all about that need to release. BH I have learned that the desperate need to release is a big fat lie. I am amazed I can actually type these words honestly. Yes, psychologists in the goyishe world advise masturbating as a stress reliever but BH there are other kosher stress relievers. Personally I have started exercising pretty religiously at a kosher gym - it works  (remember how you felt after that swim you told us about?) As an aside if you would meet me you wouldn't assume I am an exercise guy - I look pretty rabbinical and BH do not need to lose weight.

As I wrote previously, you are a hero, and iyh as you grow, you will have the ability to help countless others - you write very clearly and to the point. Best wishes! 

Yosef Tikun HaYesod wrote on 14 Feb 2017 17:26:

A few ha'oras (and let's leave addicts vs non-addicts out of the picture):

You say you want to stop because Hashem says it's assur whereby if you were a goy you think you wouldn't even see a problem.

I'm sure it's axiomatic that as a heilige Jew I believe that everything Hashem does is for the best, and the Torah won't make assur something that is actually good for me.
Sure, psychologists say that it is a healthy way to ease stress, etc.
But are they right?
If one were a goy and did it every now and then, well, if the Torah said it was assur, it STILL CAN'T BE GOOD, CAN IT? 
For ME! not for Hashem! 

Think about it.

I had others, but this is the main point I'd like to address.