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Road to 90 days (how I succeeded, and you can too)
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TOPIC: Road to 90 days (how I succeeded, and you can too) 151159 Views

Re: going for 90 days (Feb. 20) 11 Dec 2016 19:55 #299638



(I don't speak fluent smiley faces, so please write or email me in English).

Re: going for 90 days (Feb. 20) 11 Dec 2016 19:59 #299639

  • cordnoy
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Yosef Tikun HaYesod wrote on 11 Dec 2016 18:45:

The nimshal is not a race, doesn't have a finish line....What is confusing or not clear?


In post 299613 you wrote:Cord, 90-days is the end of the race in the mushel.
I've VERY rarely, made it that far/long.
If and when I finish the race, I will feel powerful and strong and good...
that I accomplished something real after a lot of hard work.
I understand that then there will be MORE races to run...

So, are you in a race, or aren't you?
My email: thenewme613@hotmail.com
My threads: Mikvah Night - Page 1Page 2Page 3Last Page

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Re: going for 90 days (Feb. 20) 11 Dec 2016 20:02 #299640

  • cordnoy
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Yosef Tikun HaYesod wrote on 11 Dec 2016 19:55:


(I don't speak fluent smiley faces, so please write or email me in English).

As I have written several times (perhaps not on this thread), my keypad sometimes locks me out from posting, that is when I use hyperglipics (yes, I know).
My email: thenewme613@hotmail.com
My threads: Mikvah Night - Page 1Page 2Page 3Last Page

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:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!
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Quote from the chevra: "Is Cordnoy truly a Treasure Island pirate from the Southern Seas?"

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Re: going for 90 days (Feb. 20) 11 Dec 2016 20:08 #299642

  • Watson
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Yosef Tikun HaYesod wrote on 11 Dec 2016 16:04:
First, I would like to know what's the difference? 
Maybe, I don't care to admit that I went on here before and failed and gave up for many years.

I'd like to say that I feel bad for getting so mixed up in someone's thread. This may be a first for me. I feel like I'm attacking you and can understand why you feel defensive.

So I'm in 2 minds as to whether to try and help you even though it's hurting me, or just leave you to it, hope you sort it all out. If you'd like me to stop posting here, just say the word and I'll listen. I have no desire to write unhelpful things.

The reason why I've posted so many times here is because so many of your posts beg a response. I still have the uneasy feeling that I'm missing something crucial, a piece of the puzzle that will make the picture clear. And I know I've not been helpful there, I've thrown the dialogue off and I apologise for that. Part of me wishes we could start this thread from scratch, starting with the exact situation and problem you face.

But to answer your question, of course you may choose which details you tell us and which you don't. You don't have to tell us anything. But you came here asking for help, yet you're making it very difficult for any of us to help you.

Re: going for 90 days (Feb. 20) 11 Dec 2016 20:28 #299643

Thank you for clarifying your question.
Reading it over again, what I wrote IS a little confusing, 
since I am switching back and forth. I apologize.

I will clarify what I meant.
The answer, of course, is that I am NOT actually in a race.
The race is only a mushel to help me describe what I'm feeling,
in order to answer Watson's question to me (see 299545).

Then you asked me: 
When does the race end?
What does the finishing line look like?
Will there be in waiting seventy....?
I answered your first 2 questions:
Cord, 90-days is [compared to] the end of the race in the mushel.
I've VERY rarely, made it that far/long [with tyvah test/nimshal].
If and when I finish the race [using mushel language to describe 90 days clean],
I will feel powerful and strong and good [as I would after finishing a hard 10k race]...
that I accomplished something real after a lot of hard work [with tyvah test/nimshal].
I understand that then there will be MORE races to run [again, using mushel language
to describe further clean day goals in the future]...
but that's not a contradiction [to there really being no end to this tyvah test].
What does this mean: "Will there be in waiting seventy....?"
[which, of course, I never got an answer to...and may have been a crude joke referring to what arab terrorists THINK they have waiting for them when they die].

Re: going for 90 days (Feb. 20) 11 Dec 2016 20:32 #299644

  • cordnoy
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Yosef Tikun HaYesod wrote on 11 Dec 2016 20:28:
Thank you for clarifying your question.
Reading it over again, what I wrote IS a little confusing, 
since I am switching back and forth. I apologize.

I will clarify what I meant.
The answer, of course, is that I am NOT actually in a race.
The race is only a mushel to help me describe what I'm feeling,
in order to answer Watson's question to me (see 299545).

Then you asked me: 
When does the race end?
What does the finishing line look like?
Will there be in waiting seventy....?
I answered your first 2 questions:
Cord, 90-days is [compared to] the end of the race in the mushel.
I've VERY rarely, made it that far/long [with tyvah test/nimshal].
If and when I finish the race [using mushel language to describe 90 days clean],
I will feel powerful and strong and good [as I would after finishing a hard 10k race]...
that I accomplished something real after a lot of hard work [with tyvah test/nimshal].
I understand that then there will be MORE races to run [again, using mushel language
to describe further clean day goals in the future]...
but that's not a contradiction [to there really being no end to this tyvah test].
What does this mean: "Will there be in waiting seventy....?"
[which, of course, I never got an answer to...and may have been a crude joke referring to what arab terrorists THINK they have waiting for them when they die].

can you explain please your two words "of course"?
ThankI you
My email: thenewme613@hotmail.com
My threads: Mikvah Night - Page 1Page 2Page 3Last Page

https://guardyoureyes.com/forum/1-Break-Free/210029-Tryin
:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!
My job: Punchin' bag of GYE - "NeshamaInCharge"
Quote from the chevra: "Is Cordnoy truly a Treasure Island pirate from the Southern Seas?"

MY POSTS ARE NOT WRITTEN AS A MODERATOR UNLESS EXPLICITLY STATED.

Re: going for 90 days (Feb. 20) 11 Dec 2016 20:42 #299647

Watson, I would very much like for you to try to help me.
You can get my email from Cordnoy.
I appreciate that you have a sense of how I feel now.
I am trying to be quite open about my experiences and feelings.
By the way, you did not answer my question, which was 
what difference does it make?
------------------
Cord, the first answer is arrogance, the second answer is that my fingers just hit those keys without thinking, and the third answer is that I don't think anyone would really, honestly suggest that we are in a race.

Re: going for 90 days (Feb. 20) 11 Dec 2016 20:46 #299648

  • cordnoy
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Yosef Tikun HaYesod wrote on 11 Dec 2016 20:42:
Watson, I would very much like for you to try to help me.
You can get my email from Cordnoy.
I appreciate that you have a sense of how I feel now.
I am trying to be quite open about my experiences and feelings.
By the way, you did not answer my question, which was 
what difference does it make?
------------------
Cord, the first answer is arrogance, the second answer is that my fingers just hit those keys without thinking, and the third answer is that I don't think anyone would really, honestly suggest that we are in a race.

Take care.

II wish you only the best.

I will watch from the sidelines.
My email: thenewme613@hotmail.com
My threads: Mikvah Night - Page 1Page 2Page 3Last Page

https://guardyoureyes.com/forum/1-Break-Free/210029-Tryin
:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!
My job: Punchin' bag of GYE - "NeshamaInCharge"
Quote from the chevra: "Is Cordnoy truly a Treasure Island pirate from the Southern Seas?"

MY POSTS ARE NOT WRITTEN AS A MODERATOR UNLESS EXPLICITLY STATED.

Re: going for 90 days (Feb. 20) 11 Dec 2016 20:47 #299649

Please explain.
----------------------
My 3 answers were to this "of course":

"The answer, of course, is that I am NOT actually in a race."
Last Edit: 11 Dec 2016 20:56 by Yosef Tikun HaYesod. Reason: 2 different "of course"s in the post.

Re: going for 90 days (Feb. 20) 11 Dec 2016 22:31 #299651

I don't know what is going on?
If I have somehow offended someone, this was not my intention.
Perhaps email is a better way to have an ongoing discussion with someone.

I think I will continue posting here, since it may help me and many others...
others who are reading this, and may be inspired, but don't often, if ever post here.

Re: going for 90 days (Feb. 20) 11 Dec 2016 23:06 #299653

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Please do continue posting. I will daven that you should be successful.

Re: going for 90 days (Feb. 20) 11 Dec 2016 23:08 #299654

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Watson wrote on 11 Dec 2016 23:06:
Please do continue posting. I will daven that you should be successful.

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Re: going for 90 days (Feb. 20) 12 Dec 2016 13:12 #299688

Lev, 32 days clean (so far).
-------------------------
I think I have a few open questions and/or requests for clarification that are still on the table.
And I am more than happy to clear up anything by email.
---------------------
I was strongly advised by Dovid (my support buddy) to go for Cold Turkey take 3.
I've got to break the bad habit. And not feeding it (taking off all streaming videos) seems to be
the best way...and a crucial step. So, here it goes, Cold Turkey take 3!
Hopefully, this time it will stick, or better said, I will stick to it.
-------------------
I spent hours going over and writing down what I feel are the main points of The Fight part 3.
Of course, I did it for myself, but since I think that what Rabbi Shafier says may very well help others, I am posting it here for anyone who wants to read it:
HaShem wants us to succeed. 
Marriage is the basis of the family.
HaShem wants marriages to work.
And He created all the forces need to accomplish just that.
Take these two utter strangers, with completely different natures.
Tell them to now spend the rest of their lives together in peace, harmony and love. How does it work?
To help bridge the gap, HaShem created various forces to allow a man and woman to form a bond. One of those forces is physical intimacy. The act of a man living with his wife causes a bonding and an attachment. Much like we find in the wild that certain species mate one time and are pair bonds for life.
The physical act has the power to create a bond. I heard my Rebbe use this expression "making love" many times, and was a little embarrassed. But it comes out that the expression “making love” is actually an apt, and accurate term. The act brings to love. Hashem created the very nature of man to desire to cling to his wife.  Not only does he have a desire to be with her physically, but much more. Hashem created this need and the ability to feel a bonding and sense of attachment to his wife. The problem is the times that we are living in. The "blade got dulled". By the time you got married, you already had seen so many women. You already had desired so many women, that the mechanism got dulled. 

The answer according to the Sefer HaChinuch is that: you need to train yourself to look at your wife and say: that is how a woman talks, that is how a woman walks. Anything else is strange. The goal is to train myself to have eyes for my wife only, to only be attracted to my wife, to only have an interest in my wife, to only have a desire for my wife. In certain cultures, fat women were considered desirable.
It seems that much of the male attraction to particular looks in women is culturally based. In the ancient Greek times, big and voluptuous women were considered the ideal. Being fat was a sign of health and wealth.  But because the culture we live in views fat as ugly, it changes our view of beauty. Desire is natural, but what we desire is learned. Torah wants a man to be happily married. This is the system - imprinting your mind and training yourself, this is a woman. Nothing else is a woman. Everything else is foreign and strange. The behamah side of me is attracted to that which it has been taught is desirable. If the culture that a man is in thinks, "thin is in", then he will find that attractive. If the culture that he is in considers tanned skin to be ugly, then he won’t be attracted to tanned women. If the culture that he is in considers large women to be unattractive, then he won’t be attracted to that. He won’t find it desirable.
If he is brought up with the notion that slanty eyes are the most beautiful things in the world, then he will most likely consider that normal. That is what a woman looks like, and he will be attracted to that. Desire is not evil or bad. It has its role and is very significant and important. The idea is to see your wife, and only your wife, as a woman. Every time that a man looks at another woman with hunger, he is training himself that his wife is not the only one for him. Quite the opposite, he is training himself to have eyes for other women. To review: 1. you have to work not just on tayvah, but your overall ruchnius, 2. you have to work on Tayvah directly too, 3. don’t learn how not to fall when you're drunk. Instead, learn not to get drunk. And now the fourth principle is that you can change the object of your desire. Take an image of your wife, and carry it in your brain. When an attractive woman comes along, pull out that image from your brain and say to yourself: mine is what I want. I’m not interested in someone else.
Mine will make me happy. Mine was given to me by HaShem. 
You are training yourself to be satisfied with what you have, with what HaShem has given you. Become drunk with your wife. When you are physically together, use the passion to emblazon her image in your mind. Develop eyes only for your wife. You are reprogramming your brain. Take vacations together. Get into your wife. Spend time doing fun things together. Go to a romantic setting. As much as you can fall in love with your wife, do it. As much as you can fall in lust with your wife, do it. Hungering for her, desiring her, focusing all of your drive on her. It’s important that you understand why HaShem made these forces and put them into man. They bring the couple together. They cause a bonding. They cause an attachment. These desires aren’t evil. They have a very real place, and are essential for the success of a marriage.

Changing gears, there is a big difference between pleasure and passion. Pleasure is the amount of enjoyment that you receive while doing an activity. Passion is the desire, the pull you have to that activity. That stale, old peanut butter sandwich was eaten with great passion, since you were starving and hadn't eaten for days, but it gave you very little pleasure. There are things that we desire that bring us little pleasure, and there are things that bring us great pleasure, that we don’t instinctively desire. While the addict may have started out motivated by the pleasure he received from alcohol or drugs, the desire, craving, hunger, and urge has become so powerful that it controls him, even when the activity no longer brings him pleasure. Not only aren’t addicts motivated by pleasure, they often find no enjoyment in it anymore. It leaves them empty and depressed, down and out — but they need it all the same. One of the biggest obstacles in working on tayvah is the mistake that it is pleasure that I’m pursuing. 
Pleasure is the state or feeling of being pleased or gratified, a source of enjoyment or delight. Most people are not pleasure seekers, but are rather driven by tayvah. They are Behamas, ruled over by their desire and instincts like the animal kingdom. This means simply that you have a great pull to that activity. It grips you and gets hold of you. Out of control, tyvah will ruin your life. Like a dog in heat, all day long hungry, desirous, needing something that you can’t have. You can’t have every beautiful woman that walks down the street. Not every movie star and actress is going to agree to be with you. So it’s not pleasure that you are pursuing. It’s not enjoyable being hungry all day without the ability to eat.
HaShem wants you to be happy. HaShem is the giver and created the whole world to give. We were created for Olam Habah. But HaShem wants us to be happy here and now. When you love your wife and you work on being satisfied with her alone, then life is beautiful! If not, it’s gehenom!
Being in heat isn’t fun. It's being out of control. Just like being filled with hatred isn’t fun and being filled with flaming anger isn’t fun.

Re: going for 90 days (Feb. 20) 12 Dec 2016 13:59 #299700

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Good Luck! Well done on Lev Tahor!
Enjoy the turkey. I'm a Hurwitz Levi, we don't eat turkey! But I could do for a chicken mayo sandwich!
Life outside the lust bubble is revitalising. So why oh why do we keep falling into it!
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Re: going for 90 days (Feb. 20) 12 Dec 2016 14:29 #299707

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Great recap of the shiur, thanks!
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