o.k. but I am talking in general.
Also, I listed several variables: frequency, intensity, ability to stop, manageability, and degree of how pervasive this issue is in one's life.

And I was trying to describe my experiences and my reality.
I used the spectrum, defined my terms, and classified myself as a 6.
What's wrong with that?

"As a matter of opinion, that is not the only thing that can be argued.
You decided that anybody who is within 4-8, can be cured by reinforcements, and whoever is a 9 or 10 must go to 12 step meetings. There can be disagreement on both of those assertions."

Cordnoy: you (and everyone else) are free to disagree. 
But what would you say? 
That 4-8 can't be helped with reinforcements, like those found on this site?
And that 9-10 can be helped without 12-step meetings?
I'm curious to know what you think.

Not trying to be confrontational, just waiting.
Still curious, even after your "teaser - before you answer" post.

You don't know how other people feel or how they really deal with lust.

So classifying yourself as a 6 is not where you are on a scale compared with other people. How could it be, you don't have enough information about them.

Logical?

So, what does the classification of 6 mean exactly?

Can I be presumptuous and suggest that this scale is more a scale of how easy you think things could be for you and how terrible things could get for you.

You wish you were a 1 - the easiest you could imagine you could reasonably expect to have it.

You dread 10 - that's when disaster has struck. Something terrible has happened, like seeing a prostitute, or worse still - going to an SA meeting.

You put yourself as a 6 on the Yosefichter scale - bad but a long way from the worst you can imagine.

Fair?

You can't say that seeing a person who goes to a prostitute is worse than a person who watches porn. You have no idea where they started from. One of them grew up on a council estate while the other is the son of a Rosh Yeshivah.

Two people can walk down the road. One gets schar for not going into McDonalds, while the other is punished for bitul Torah. They're holding at different places.

Take for example two people. Alfred gets drunk every weekend but doesn't drink during the week. Bertie gets drunk every single night. Which is the alcoholic?

No.

No.

Correct. You simply don't have enough information yet. A year later Bertie meets a girl and gets engaged. He swears off drink and doesn't touch a drop for the rest of his long and happy life. Alfred also meets a girl, but for some reason his drinking keeps increasing....

My point is that using a self-made scale, that's really more about you than other people, for the purpose of making yourself somehow different from other people, is not really helpful.

Being different can be dangerous. I've heard it described as 'terminal uniqueness'.

Interesting read. Mostly "Chinese" to me.
I look at it as something that just is and cannot be changed. 
HaShem decided to make me a 6. Others, He made a 9 or a 1 or whatever.
There is no competition. And it has NOTHING to do with the reward HaShem will ultimately give each person for the decisions he makes in this world, based on where he came from, etc. 
I look at it more like eyesight.
Again, there is a spectrum. 
Some people have no problem seeing in any circumstance. They are a 1.
2 and 3 see things pretty well and don't need any outside help.
4-8 have a real problem that they can't solve on their own, and need glasses.
9-10 need even more outside help, perhaps special glasses, and a seeing-eye dog. 

I think that there are a lot of people who fall into EACH range.
I don't think I'm so different from other people and unique.
And I only said that there is a spectrum. I didn't really make anything up.

You are scoring the longest Watson posts.

He usually doesn't have much time with all his detective work

You must be special

Keep it up

Yosef Tikun HaYesod wrote on 07 Dec 2016 22:21:

Reinforcements might not help people with a moderate issue, for their issue might be internal, and they need intense therapy.

Twelve steps might not help someone who lives in a whore house, for he might not be ready for it; he might have other issues which the steps don't address; he also might simply need a serious klap on the head to knock him into shape.

Speaking of numbers, I wish my wife was a 9 or a 10.

Yosef Tikun HaYesod wrote on 07 Dec 2016 22:49:

Mikol melamday hiskalti.

Yosef Tikun HaYesod wrote on 07 Dec 2016 22:49:

And do me a favor please.
 actually, do yourself a favor.

If you don't understand something Watson wrote, ask him. He is well experienced, an intellectual thinker and he writes very well. Even I understood it.

cordnoy wrote on 07 Dec 2016 23:16:


I understood it quite well as well. Watson, well said.

Yosef, you're growing on me and I'm enjoying some of the energy you're bringing to the forum.

Think about this. You made up your own system, and are assuming other people's experiences based on your made up scale.

There's nothing objective about your scale; it's just something that you made up for your own reference.

Maybe there's nothing wrong with that per se.

But, the way you tell it over is as if it is objective fact and if everyone should use it as a frame of reference.

I think the pushback and resistance you keep on getting is because you're basing a lot on an unproven hypothesis, and people who have much more experience than you are less sure of themselves.

Might the message be to just keep an open mind like here guys do? The 12 steps book says something about knowing very little, even though they have a whole system of recovery.

So my message- learn from the uncertainty and open-mindedness of the more experienced, and focus on what you can do and not philosophical concepts.

This is all said in a spirit of friendship and trying to help you understand what people are telling you.

No harm or nastiness intended at all, keep up the good work.

Another clean day, Boruch HaShem.
-------------
Thanks for all the posts, guys.
I know that EVERYONE is just trying to help.
And I feel that...in addition to the pushback and resistance Workingguy mentioned.
-------------
WATSON, I think I answered your original question on how I am classifying MYSELF on the spectrum.
I think I answered your next post too, with the eyesight mushel.
I am not really sure what you meant by your last post. Please say it in clear English.
------------------------------
I have exercised intensely and it's getting easier. 
I also increased my learning the last few days...
which will hopefully continue into Shabbos and beyond.

Don't know why that last bit will help us.

I'm sorry, Cord. I took it out.
I was kind of "iffy" including it, but I did want to know HOW people think about it, since, unfortunately, it's not just a theoretical case. Maybe email me what you think and/or a good hashkafa for me to make sense of it.

In other news, I'm feeling quite good today.
My relationships are getting better. 
I'm spending real time with each person,
and the positivity is rubbing off and spreading
throughout the house. 
Interesting how responsive everyone has been to my 
spending more time with them and less escaping on the computer.
I have to keep it up!! 
...and remember this feeling when I want to watch the next thing on the computer.

I would think that for agreeing with Cord, and apologizing, and even editing out the end of my post, I would actually gain a brownie point, not lose one.
Please explain.