I have tried to use this site to help me in my battle, but every time I fall I get so upset with myself that I stop coming back. From here on out, the focus is only on the positive. I once asked someone that I was close with in Yeshiva, how can I be more consistent in doing the right thing. He said that it says Sheva Yipol Tzaddik, V'kum! He said stop emphasizing the yipol (fall) and start working on the V'kum (getting up). He said everyone falls, but the challenge is to get back up again.
So far it's been 4 days, and I hope to continue to rise without interruption.

Welcome to the club.

What are your struggles?
what actions have you tried for recovery?
Are you a teenager?
There is a special section for teens?

Let us know; we are here to help.
Don't be a stranger and don't get down...that helps nobody.

b'hatzlachah

LOVE THE ATTITUDE! I have also realized that getting stuck in the negative doesnt help.

But let me ask: How will you be able to stay positive? What concetre steps will you make to stay positive? Also what actions are you doing to recover? Staying positive is a really great idea and it will help. It helped me. But its important to uncover our underlying issues.

Check out: Skep's tips

WELCOME GIBOR!!!

great thing you joined a whole new world is now open for you, people who care, understand, supportive and fun,

as mentioned here many times opening up is step number one so looking forward to hearing from you,

KOMT!!!!

After reading some of the stuff on this forum I realize that I am fortunate to "only" have the problem of p&m.
I've tried different things from the handbook, but it only works for me when I am consistent with it. It's hard to be consistent when in a state of Yiush though.
No, I'm not a teenager lol. I'm married with kids. Although, I wish I had found this site when I was 14 and still somewhat in control. It would have changed my life. Anyway, coulda, woulda, shoulda, makes no difference. Now, the mantra is "one day at a time".

Thanks for the support

dms, positive is an attitude. It's a way of thinking. I don't think there is a magic solution to staying positive. I think it's just about reminding myself (consistently) that depression's last name is YH and that everything happens for a reason.
Thank you for those tips! They seem very practical and down-to-earth.

One thing I don't get though, is the whole "uncover our underlying issues" thing. I like to think of myself as a healthy person, both physically and emotionally. I am not saying that I am a robot that never gets upset or down, but I don't think I can point to one (or more) things and say "this" is the reason why I act out. I think it's just that I have a YH who is constantly selling his wares, unfortunately. And he happens to be an expert salesman...

Gibor wrote:



welcome v'kum,
i very much want to comment on what you said, but i gotta run, maybe later.

Welcome V'kum!!

It's great that you came here, opened up, realized that you need something more!!

How about telling us more about you and what you struggle with, how long have you been struggling? What have you tried? Have you been able to pinpoint any triggers (both physical and emotional)?

The more we know, the more we'll be able to relate and share our similar experiences, so Keep on Posting!!

and of course KOMT!!

Gibor wrote:


first of all welcome aboard. Enjoy the ride. there are alot of fun guys on the bus.

What uncovering our underlying issues means, (from my experoence of course) is that even though I also thought that the YH was my problem, I came to realize that there are times when the YH seems to be on vacation, and times where he seems to be working overtime. I have learned to realize what it is that gets the YH running back asap from his vacations.
Certain moods, stress levels, sholom bayis frustrations, periods of laziness and feeling overwhelmed, were all things that got the YH to kick into high gear amongst others.
I also realized that my fight was not against the YH head on. It was learning how to help keep him on vacation.
Another point I would like to make is that if your only problem is the YH selling prowess, why have you not been able to fight it? Perhaps, part of his wares is getting you to believe you have no other issues and perhaps you need other tools to fight him. what have you tried?

pidaini, I am 28 and have had this problem since 14 (or earlier, I can't remember). I struggle with p&m. Sometimes I can fight it for a bit, but it always comes back. I have tried more things than I can remember, but nothing that works long term. I think most people have the same triggers. For me there are many small things that are easier to overcome, like anger, stress, laziness, etc. But the killer for me is, if I am expecting to be with my wife and she is not up to it, it is almost impossible for me to stay clean.
Pardon my ignorance, what is KOMT?

unanumun, (what does your name mean?) For me, the YH is never on vacation. Yes, I do agree that there are things that make us more vulnerable to the YH. But, I don't think that a person has to be emotionally unstable or have had traumatic experiences (that's how I understand "underlying issues") to become an addict. I'm just a regular (albeit, sometimes weak) guy that has an active YH.

Thanks everyone for the support!

Gibor


I can relate to pretty much every word you wrote here, because I've said them!

The seforim say that a Jew doesn't sin unless a "spirit of folly" -temporary insanity- comes over them.

How is this possible? Are we ticking time bombs, one second normal, then -flip!- completely insane, and then -flip!- back to normal??

As Jews, we all know that everything is hashgacha protis. That means that Hashem gives every one of His creations exactly what they need, when they need it.

Now, the YH comes along and tries to sell his stuff to us. How does he do it? He puts totally crazy thoughts into our minds. "It's not so bad if you do such and such, in fact, it will be good for you. You need to take care of yourself once in a while. You deserve it!"

If we would keep our heads on straight, we'd realize how foolish the suggestion is and laugh him right out of town, after all, we KNOW that Hashem is taking care of us, why in the world would we attempt to "take care of ourselves" by doing something forbidden? But the YH takes advantage of that bit of doubt we have, the stress we possess, the picture of "reality" he presents to us. He clouds our minds with the INSANITY and we take the bait.

At first, the YH may need to be a bit of a salesman, he may have to lay it on really thick, but then, if we don't come to our senses and put an end to it, it could become a habit, a crutch to lean on, and then the YH doesn't NEED to be "active"! The YH is LESS active with addicts because we're already in a mindless cycle!

From my own personal experience, I've found that while I was involved with the stuff, I didn't believe in underlying causes. I did it because I liked it. Period. And I did it all the time, regardless of how I felt.

One night, after having been clean for a bit, my wife happened to make a snapping remark to me, and a clear thought popped into my mind - "Well, if she's going to be that way, I'm going to..!" - I laughed to myself, yeah like THAT'S going to make everything all better! It was a revelation - when I felt slighted, acting out was my unhealthy, non-helping solution!

I don't think that anyone here has said that underlying causes need to be due to emotional instability or trauma. Underlying causes are often like those you've listed in your post: anger, fear, stress, laziness, expectations, etc. We need to learn to deal with these issues properly, rather than seeking to escape from them.

Okay, thank you for clarifying what "underlying causes" means. I agree that there are things that prompt me to want to act out. And I also understand that Yedias Hamakah is half of the refuah. My problem is in the second half of the refuah. I know when I am weak, but it seems like I can't do anything about it There are many times when I see that I am stressed (or disappointed by unmet expectations) and I know where it will lead me to, but it seems like I am helpless to stop it. Even when I do manage to stop myself, the urge comes back stronger the next day. And if by some miracle I still manage to control myself by the time the third day rolls around it's almost hopeless. And the fact of the matter is, that once I act out, I feel a lot better. Yes, sometimes I need to act out again the next day. But, many times things go back to normal, and I don't feel this crazy pressure all the time. Sometimes I feel like a doctor who smokes. He knows better than anyone how bad it is for him, but he does it anyway because it feels good.

In short, 1) I know it's wrong. 2) I usually recognize what's causing it. But, 3) it seems like I can't stop myself. Maybe because it relieves the stress. (and I know that it doesn't always help for the long term, but it does provide instant gratification)

Thanks again for you support.

Awareness and acceptance are very powerful.

This was our source of comfort all these years, it was the answer to all our negative feelings. Why would we want to give it up??

Though we may know of the negative consequences, like the smoking doctor, the pleasure is more real than some knowledge of a future consequence. Our mind and body don't want to give up this instant gratification comfort, it tries to make it feel like we can't live without it.

But we really don't need this stuff in order to live happy lives. There are many people here who have been where you are, and are now living good clean lives. Hang around, read, post, chat, stay connected. There are also daily phone conferences you can attend. As long as you don't throw in the towel, you will be ok.

Hatzlacha!

Gibor wrote:


dear v'kum, it seems from my experience, that one needs quite a few different tools to help stop falling and to start recovery. one theme which was mentioned here several times, and skep also said it, is that inside we harbor resentment, anger, rage, etc. and this gives us a "license" to act out. it is no small feat to identify the exact causes for these emotions, but it is a very powerful tool if one can remove even some of it, and make peace, with the things that happened to him.
wishing you the best and thanks for posting

Hey, I like your name . Welcome! Your problems are not unique. One thing I learned here is that the source of my problem is not the issur. The source is my lusting. You mentioned expecting to be with your wife. (Expectations are another biggie, leading to a fall.) I had to learn to let go of lust (and I still forget often), even lust for my wife. Once I realized that I am allergic to lust and cannot afford to lust because it makes me crazy, I started to recover.

Keep posting and reading. You will learn a lot. It is possible to be sober. Many here have proven it after decades of acting out.