Aryeh821 wrote:
Ok, you're a yeshiva bachur - WELCOME!!!

If your Mashgiach mentioned Kedusha's Einayim would you be comfortable to open up to him?

Me personally? Ya for sure
He has and I did but I don't think he had any idea that this site even existed since he didn't refer me here
However I see your problem because my mashgiach at least in my opinion is a really one of a kind yid ( maybe everybody feels that way about his mashgiach) and most people wouldn't say anything but even for those few wouldn't it be worth it ?
Also I don't think most places talk about this kind of challenge besides in a really general way
And thanks for the welcome

Well I think that GYE is on it's way to make sure that people know about it.

cordnoy wrote on 31 Jul 2014 17:22:

Many don't know about the "recent posts" dropdown, but that is how, I, as a moderator (who reads every post) keeps current. I'm not 100% sure why I chose this thread to comment on, but it is good (and bad) to see that my mind, thoughts and writin' style are still of the same wavelength.

I will not debate philosophy, and at the same time, I believe that the #1 step for recovery for any person, no matter the situation, is to get his 'secret' out to another. That other should be someplace safe and cozy. GYE is NOT that place. There might be folks on GYE who could be that 'other,' but the forum is a public and anonymous place. 

Please listen to the followin' distinction (and perhaps read it twice): When one goes to a therapist, Rabbi, mentor, guidance counselor, friend, etc. and discloses that he has molested two toddlers and one teenager in the past year, the 'other' should not respond with, "Know that you are a sicko, deranged, severely demented and need desperately to be locked up in a psyche hospital for three months." That is not appropriate and counter productive. Rather, the response should be, "I hear, I feel for you, that must be tough, that can be disturbing, how does that make you feel? Where would you like to go from here? Etc."  However, when one is on a public forum such as this and he says, "I have raped my wife, boyfriend and give my six year old daughter three baths a week, and I regularly enjoy being peed upon by a leather-clad transvestite," the response from the cheerleadin' squad should not be, "Bravo! Don't worry, you're normal, come join the party, let's explore the symptoms of this behavior, perhaps with the right EMDR professional, we can determine what brought this about, etc." There is this line in this public settin' that these actions (and sometimes even thoughts and desires) have crossed that this is not normal, this is not OK. Is it OK? yes, he/she can be helped, but that is not the purpose of the forum. It can be done through PM's, calls, emails, etc. And certainly not on day #1 and 2. [Even though I said to read it twice, that does not mean that I am right, just that this is my opinion (and I am not humble).]

Two more notes please: 1. This 'line' may not be clear to all, and perhaps not to me as well. Where does visitin' escorts and prostitutes fit in? Howbout multiple partners? What about sodomy with a 17 year old? Howbout bondage porn? I don't know, but I do know that there are some absolutes. 2. I don't like the cheerleadin' method; however, many do, and it has some value to it, perhaps lots of value, and those of you who engage in this type of chizuk, it is completely fine by me, as the motto goes, we should try whatever works; but that should not be confused with this discussion and my argument here when the line, imho ('h' for haughty), has been crossed for this public forum.

And one final note: I obviously have been around the block here for some time, maybe I helped people, maybe not, but on a one-to-one basis, I have spoken with many folks who have engaged in many of the above-mentioned behaviors (I can be included as well), and some of them will even say that I helped them in their recovery.

Godspeed to all

cordnoy wrote on 20 Dec 2022 15:54:

I'm relieved to see were you stand. This has cleared up a lot of confusion for me. I always viewed GYE as the place that should be 100% safe and cozy for anyone to reveal any feeling or desire they have and be welcomed with open, caring, safe and cozy arms. I see we disagree slightly. You believe that    
"There is this line in this public settin' that these actions (and sometimes even thoughts and desires) have crossed that this is not normal, this is not OK"

And i believe that "There is this line in this public settin' that these actions (and sometimes even thoughts and desires) have crossed that this is not normal, this is not OK"

So thank you for clearing it up. Can i ask you though? Isn't GYE the best place ever for those finally having the courage to "come out of the closet" to be welcomed with open arms, so long as they are just expressing their desires/feelings? Its anonymous, its a group setting, we are all brothers here and truly care about each other here. Isn't this the perfect place to allow people to begin their journey to getting support and assistance with whatever desire they would like to get assistance with?  Yes, if someone says they "don't care about the desires they have", or says "i want to act on a desire i have" which makes them potentially dangerous, then of course "GYE is NOT that place.​"   We aren't therapists and we shouldn't be trying to play a role that is inappropriate for a public forum where right and wrong needs to be clear and blunt.

Human being wrote on 20 Dec 2022 21:17:

HB, let me respond in short, with a few points.

First, GYE has always been overall a very supportive space, with not much judgement, it is a place where people can state their desires and be accepted. 
But, GYE has always had a frame of inappropriate non dangerous desires, that people can discuss, and feel free to state openly. Sorry but your bringing in desires that lots of people here feel are not in our scope to discuss. Pedophilia is dangerous and I know you agree with that, but you wanna draw your line what's okay to feel, how much, how dangerous a person is, based on those feelings (obviously every molester starts with only feelings, and many of them want to stop and feel compelled), where as other feel, we are not here to discuss those stuff. It's a dangerous slippery slope.

Number two, GYE is based on a bunch people, everyone has their strengths. If you are the one who is very supportive, accepting, loving etc good for you, some are better in keeping people honest, or state it like it is. You want a safe space? You created such a thread, (I even used it to my great satisfaction) it's great, but why does GYE need to be one color, I would never be where I am without a kick in the ass, when I needed to face the music. You be the supportive one, make people comfortable, if people only want chairleading and love they have a thread to go to, and they have your email, and hashem will repay you for what you do. Preaching is usually not appreciated.

There are additional points, if you wanna discuss anything further, email me, I'll be happy to talk to you in the phone.

All the best.

I would add .if you don’t have children yet , and or know people who have been abused when they were young , and seen the horrible affects and suffering it causes.Then perhaps you should not be going on about how all is good and there’s nothing wrong with feelings etc. It’s very serious business , and frankly our communities have learned this the hard way.

i-man wrote on 21 Dec 2022 00:50:

I'm not going to go into specifics, but between the ages of 11/12 ( please don't ask me details-it will cause me intense shame and be triggering. I don't want to regret being so vulnerable.) I got all too familiar with molest. And that is why I am so passionate about the topic. Because my story could have been avoided if not for the fact that the molester would have reached out. He didn't reach out for the precise reason of shame and guilt for having desires that where "strange and crazy".  That is why I am so passionate about it. I wish no-one in the world the fear, guilt, self hate and burning shame that molest causes.

And as I know from my own personal experience, helping people realize they aren't strange and are not "different then everyone" and have no reason to feel that others will judge them is the number 1 thing we can do to protect our children.

( I will not be starting off another conversation of "normalizing vs not normalizing. we had that convo already.)

Human being wrote on 21 Dec 2022 03:16:

I’m sorry that you had to deal with what you went through. I hear your opinion and to be honest it seems like a very complex, difficult question and I for one am certainly unqualified to opine.

Sapy wrote on 21 Dec 2022 00:07:

As I emailed you, I disagree with point number one.  The second point you make, i want to respond publicly. I think the exact reason you gave to support your perspective, in reality supports my perspective. Let me explain. 

​Gye is meant for anyone and everyone that has challenges with porn/masturbation etc. Many many many of us cant stop, due to overwhelming childhood experiences that overwhelms us with our challenges, in a way that doesn't allow us to just stop on our own cause we want to. Many of us need more. We need support, therapy, guidance etc etc etc.    

Those same people -which i believe is a big percentage, have other adverse affects, stemming from the same childhood experiences. In other words, anyone with a history of trauma, neglect, abuse, bullying etc, will have other challenges, especially in the sexual realm because remember we are talking about guys here who have a problem that is of a sexual nature.   That being said, I believe, in order to allow gye to be colorful as you said "but why does GYE need to be one color" we need to make sure that all people, with all different sexual challenges are accepted the same on gye. The only way for a platform to be colorful, is to let all the different colors feel safe, accepted and not judged. I think if the way some of us respond is with a kick in the pants, while that might help you, it will not help all the colors out there feel comfortable being open, vulnerable and courageous.

Because many of us that have a challenge in one sexual area (porn) also have another challenge in a different sexual area (sexual desires/orientation-)  I think they are hugely intertwined because for many of us both challenges come from the same childhood/teenage/life experiences.   And because they are so intertwined, anyone that has a different sexual desire then what some here find "acceptable", will be hindered from feeling they can open up about anything sexual in nature, out of fear, that if someone probes a little deeper, or if someone "chaps" they have other sexual orientations/desires, they will be judged, looked down upon and ultimately ashamed.  

Thank you.

Over a decade of history on this website has shown that folks with all types of fetishes, desires, actions and more have been accepted and not judged. [Otherwise, how would I be here?] Even a "kick in the pants" is nonjudgmental. As said many times, there are lines, however. 

Disagreement is not only allowed; it is encouraged.

HB, I dont see where you are disagreeing with what I wrote.

We're all good here. 

I was lookin' for somethin' in the archives, but instead I found this beauty from over ten years ago:

Well, I'm not quite ready to click my heels and return to Kansas with this new outlook. But I've realized that it's neither the lust nor the love that I'm mourning.

This is very very serious and very very dark in my consciousness right now, but I'm going to spill it out even though the thought's not fully formed.

You see, I'm not missing the lust... as much as I'm
MISSING THE VESSEL THAT I USED TO STORE THAT LUST.

THE VESSEL WITH ELABORATE PASSAGES TO KEEP THE POISON AWAY FROM MY HEART, WHILE GIVING THE LUST A WARM FUZZY PLACE TO LIFE.

THE VESSEL THAT CRADLED MY HEART AND KEPT IT SAFE FROM ALL THE SHMUTZ AND DEPRESSION AND DEGRADATION AND EVERYTHING ELSE THAT MY LUST DEMANDED.

THE VESSEL THAT I HAD HAND-CRAFTED SO PAINSTAKINGLY OVER SO MANY YEARS, SO THAT (YOU MIGHT RECALL) THE BALANCE OF 98% AND 2% SHMUTZ WAS CAREFULLY MAINTAINED.

THE VESSEL THAT I MADE OUT OF BLOOD, SWEAT, TEARS AND AT GREAT COST TO OTHER PARTS OF MY LIFE. With a passageway for my spouse, another for the kids, a safe corner for my fantasies, a containment chamber for my outrageousness, and a nook and cranny carved perfectly for every need as it arose over many years.

THE VESSEL THAT DEFINED MY SELF-VIEW OF SEXUALITY, MASCULINITY, WORTH, AND MORE.

I've been having this dream that I was on a desert island for years. Rescuers came (maybe a tour of the two shuls??). I wanted to take home the beautiful bed I had carved out of stone and inlaid with jewels. It fit me perfectly, it took years of my life to finish, etc. But they couldn't bring it on the boat. I had to leave it behind to get home. I missed my bed, the work of my hands and my heart and everything.

So, I think I'm not really as addicted to the lusting itself as I am to the house of cards I constructed to live with my lust. If I don't lust, then I don't need a cloak anymore called gay, or special, or master juggler, or wow-what-u-do-4-Hashem, or well-hung, or good in bed, or anything like that. I don't need a cloak at all. I just need to show up as me.

Giving up that container that held the lust is work that I'm now contemplating on a level deep enough to scare the pants off me. (And I don't mean in preparation for acting out, you know.)

Okay, is THAT dark enough for you? Because I think I have to stop typing a cry for a coupla minutes. Lemme know what you read in this that I might continue working on, once the tears dry. Thanks.