we sometimes need to gently offer permission to believe in a different version of Hashem, a compassionate, loving one.

open a window, subtly and sensitively, that maybe, just maybe, there’s another way to see things.

I’d like to be vulnerable as well; vulnerability breeds vulnerability

I believe to a degree, I knew that this would start a debate, I was being pretty controversial, and maybe that's what I wanted. I enjoy a good back-and-forth. I apologize if you or anyone was hurt because of this. This leads to the following dillema.
Maybe you can help me with this, YKW.

Dealing with someone who suffers from religious pain is very different than working through false cognitions in therapy for something like depression. In the case of depression, it’s often enough for a fellow sufferer to empathize, and for the therapist to work through the distortions and triggers in a safe, structured way.

But when the pain stems from religious beliefs, I think empathy alone isn’t sufficient. These beliefs often come wrapped in the authority of Torah and spiritual obligation, which makes them feel unchallengeable. For example, if someone believes that Hashem wants them to sit and learn Torah day and night, and that anything less is believed, then yes, we can (and must) empathize. Living with such a demanding and punishing image of Hashem is incredibly painful.

But in my opinion, empathy is only part of it. To really help, we sometimes need to gently offer permission to believe in a different version of Hashem, a compassionate, loving one. This requires some level of intellectual engagement, especially if the person believes this harsh view is Daas Torah, taught to them directly by all the gedolim throughout the generations.

Of course, there’s a fine line between offering healing Torah and giving a full-on shiur klali, which can feel irrelevant or even invalidating. The goal is never to debate (although that's fun too for some), but to open a window, subtly and sensitively, that maybe, just maybe, there’s another way to see things. I believe I may have crossed that line recently, and if so, I apologize.

But I’d really love to hear from the oilam, and from someone in particular (you know who), whether this resonates. And also, where is that line between helpful Torah and a beis midrash-style discussion? How do we offer clarity without sounding like we’re trying to “prove” something?

Dealing with someone who suffers from religious pain is very different than working through false cognitions in therapy for something like depression. In the case of depression, it’s often enough for a fellow sufferer to empathize, and for the therapist to work through the distortions and triggers in a safe, structured way.

But when the pain stems from religious beliefs, I think empathy alone isn’t sufficient. These beliefs often come wrapped in the authority of Torah and spiritual obligation, which makes them feel unchallengeable. For example, if someone believes that Hashem wants them to sit and learn Torah day and night, and that anything less is believed, then yes, we can (and must) empathize. Living with such a demanding and punishing image of Hashem is incredibly painful.

But in my opinion, empathy is only part of it. To really help, we sometimes need to gently offer permission to believe in a different version of Hashem, a compassionate, loving one. This requires some level of intellectual engagement, especially if the person believes this harsh view is Daas Torah, taught to them directly by all the gedolim throughout the generations.

Of course, there’s a fine line between offering healing Torah and giving a full-on shiur klali, which can feel irrelevant or even invalidating. The goal is never to debate (although that's fun too for some), but to open a window, subtly and sensitively, that maybe, just maybe, there’s another way to see things. I believe I may have crossed that line recently, and if so, I apologize.

But I’d really love to hear from the oilam, and from someone in particular (you know who), whether this resonates. And also, where is that line between helpful Torah and a beis midrash-style discussion? How do we offer clarity without sounding like we’re trying to “prove” something?

Hi everyone, I’m curious what you think.

A big source of pain for me is Selichos. What really gets to me is the message that everything, all the suffering and tragedies we’ve been through, is supposedly our fault. That we must have done something so terribly wrong to deserve things like the Holocaust, the Crusades, pogroms, and more.

That’s really hard easy for me to accept. It’s hard to think that we, as a nation, are so bad good that we somehow earned a life free from that kind of suffering. And it's even hardereasier when it feels personal, like I am being told I’m that bad too.

Honestly, I don’t really believe that. Most people I know are trying so hard to do their best in difficult situations, situations they never asked to be in. To say that tragedies happened because of our sins feels like it lacks empathy for the struggles people are already going through. And I can’t believe that Hashem, Who is compassionate and loving, would see us and want us to see ourselves that way.

Maybe it’s just the pain talking. But I wanted to share it, because this part of davening has always been very hard for me.

Thanks for listening.
(P.s. I know the Nesivos Shalom about this but it always seemed more)

Hi everyone, I’m curious what you think.

A big source of pain for me is Selichos. What really gets to me is the message that everything, all the suffering and tragedies we’ve been through, is supposedly our fault. That we must have done something so terribly wrong to deserve things like the Holocaust, the Crusades, pogroms, and more.

That’s really hard for me to accept. It’s hard to think that we, as a nation, are so bad that we somehow earned that kind of suffering. And it's even harder when it feels personal, like I am being told I’m that bad too.

Honestly, I don’t really believe that. Most people I know are trying so hard to do their best in difficult situations, situations they never asked to be in. To say that tragedies happened because of our sins feels like it lacks empathy for the struggles people are already going through. And I can’t believe that Hashem, Who is compassionate and loving, would see us and want us to see ourselves that way.

Maybe it’s just the pain talking. But I wanted to share it, because this part of davening has always been very hard for me.

Thanks for listening.
(P.s. I know the Nesivos Shalom about this but it always seemed more)