LoveU,Hashem wrote on 23 Oct 2017 22:10:

For me, Recovery is working the 12 Steps. It got me to a different place where I don't struggle with lust. If I feel lust coming on, I look at it as an external annoyance, ask it what it's doing here in my mind, and blow it away. If it's really persistent, e.g. if I'm sitting on a train for an hour across from a pretty woman, then I ask Hashem to take this lust from me, because it's too strong for me. However, I did have to work the Steps: write out the 4th Step, make 9th Step calls, try to speak to Hashem on a personal level every day...

Thank you, Rob, for sharing. May Hashem always be by your side on your journey. Does praying to hashem a workable solution? I would like to copy what I wrote to a fellow member via email, and maybe you can help me gain some clarity, cause I'm a bit confused. 

This program looks like its doing wonders to those who truly abide by it. I'm not sure though if I understand the underlying concept. It appears that the main idea is let go and let Hashem take charge? Now that sounds really amazing and it is worthy for me to join such a program just to learn to truly apply this truth in every aspect of my daily life. But how does that solve the natural need that is sex? You don't have to be an addict to get turned on after not having sex for a while. It comes naturally. (again, addicts abuse it but normal people have that too, maybe not as often..) So how does let go and let Hashem take care help? I still need to go to sleep every night. My body still wants sex (I indeed can survive without it, but the need is not something abnormal caused by some mental illness).

Thank you so much for listening and cheers to a sober day!

hey, before i forget. 224 days is impressive! Great work brother!! 

LoveU,Hashem,

Thanks for the compliment. I did it by letting Hashem help me. Really. When I reached 90 days, my wife asked me if I'm proud of myself. I said that I'm not proud, but content and more at peace with myself than I have been for many years.

I will try to answer your question. There are a few components to the 12 Steps. The first is admitting powerlessness over lust. To me, that means breaking down my ego and admitting I need help with this. The second and third steps are to accept that Hashem can help me and to turn myself over to His care. I won't summarize all the following steps, but they are geared towards a spiritual awakening. I have underlying resentments and fears which control a huge part of my behavior. They cause me pain and I medicate the pain by acting out. By working the 12 Steps, I don't control my lust. I confront my resentments and fears and get rid of them. Then I don't have pain and I don't need to medicate myself. At all times, I recognize that I am trying to submit my will to Hashem's will and let Him help me.

Of course you need sex. That's not the same as obsessing over every woman in the street, seeking out porn and masturbating. That's lust. 

I don't know how effective I am getting the message across. You have to work the 12 Steps. It doesn't help to read about them or talk about them. You have to do the work to get the results. You can read fitness books all day long, but they won't get you in shape.

Very well said, Rob! What you're saying is very interesting. I envy your serenity and clarity. Hashem is amazing! Only he can help us! 

I don't wanna come across as intrusive, but if you can elaborate on what kind of pain you have discovered during the program that will be a big help. Is it something you were aware of it all along or something new you discovered at the program? And how did porn serve as a medication?

May Hashem always be by your side. 

Yitzchok

Yizchok,

First I have to give credit to Duvid Chaim. I worked with him one on one on the 12 Steps for six months.

The first pain I faced was anger. Although I was always aware of it, I never confronted it. I come across as a very relaxed and even tempered person, but I had anger issues. Through the program, I learned two things. I learned Acceptance, which is to accept that everything that happens to me is exactly as Hashem wills it. It makes no sense to get angry at something Hashem puts on your plate. The second thing is that anger comes from pride and ego. When I have pride and a large ego, I take offense at silly little things. E.g., "How dare the chazan daven faster than the pace at which I am comfortable? I don't like him!"

The second thing I learned is that boredom at work triggered me into acting out. I do lots of meetings at home at night with people in another time zone. I would lose interest after a few minutes and start looking for porn on my computer.

Acting out as medication is described in the Doctor's Opinion in the AA Big Book. He describes a cycle that alcoholics go through, but it can be generalized to all addictions.

​1. Restlessness, Irritability and Discontent. I understand this as spiritual and emotional pain.
2. Spree. This is the actual addictive behavior. For me, it is porn, masturbation, etc. For others, it is alcohol, drugs, cigarettes, gambling. This is the medication. It relieves the pain.
3. Remorse. The medication is temporary and then I feel sorry and guilty.
4. Firm resolve. I make a firm decision never to act out again.

However, this is a cycle. After 4, I go back to 1, 2, ... The cycle is broken by addressing the underlying cause which is the resentments and fears that I have.

Thank you rob for your wonderful post! Emotional pain that is so true. I have some of it now, and what I need now is some soothing porn to run away from reality. Too bad, won't help anyways, it will only make things worse. I have nowhere to run but into Hashem's hands and back to reality. But as you said, a fitness book will not make me skinny. 

Cheers, rob!

 just fell again with my filter. no good. Now what? I just know Hashem was with me even when I fell. I put on a very strong filter, today I got really in the mood and decided to check out the filter (stupid idea). I tried for probably 1.45 hours with no success. I was just so in the mood so I prayed to Hashem to help me find something (ridiculous) and the next minute boom, I found exactly what I (didn't) need.. What does it tell me? that Hashem is here! he is with me where ever I go. Hashochen Itchem Betoch Timusam.. But how will I ever get out of this? The more I fight it, the harder it becomes  It's like if I look at it that it's not a big deal in my life right now, it doesn't have the sweetness of a forbidden fruit. but if I'm determined to fight it, suddenly I want it so much.What do I do???

Forget about the filter

Basic filtering is enough, now go get a life ;-)

As Mark says
"Stop Stopping, Start Starting..." or something like that

But I have to do something, or else?? Or else what? I mean that won't be pretty, but so is fighting to stop, it ain't pretty either way. My biggest issue with my fall is how will I be able to look Hashem in his eyes?? I need him so so much! I can't without him. My life is such a mess, the more I fall the more I mess it up. So who can help me but him? But now that I fell I am ashamed to even talk to him. So if I surrender this fight to him, now what? does that mean that he fell? Is it his problem and not mine? 

How can I let him down like this?? He is with me. He hasn't left me. But what kind of covenant is that?? He is my God, personal, he takes care of me ALL the time, and I?? I lust PLENTY of times. What do I bring to the table? Garbage. Lots and lots of garbage. But does it really have to be a fair deal? I mean even I come with a resume of Dov, 20 years clean, I am still way in the red compared to what he brings to the table, so regardless I am outnumbered. What does my falling matter? But if that's the case, then what holds our covenant in the first place? Why is Hashem My god and not the god of the Mexican or the cat down the block? What brings us all together. Is it love? Hashem plain and simple loves me for no good reason? Maybe. But is this love unbreakable? Is there anything I can do that will mess up our relationship and get me on the wrong side of the equation? I'm sure something can break the ice. No matter how thick and strong it is, somethings gotta do it. But what??

Well, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe his love is unconditional. I mean if the love has no reason, then maybe nothing indeed can get in the way between me and Hashem? Maybe my fall is painful for him, but nothing close to throwing me out of the house. But if he is so so nice to me, where am I??? in sh*t?? What can I do now, that I don't have any lust (at least for the day), to prove to him that our relationship means something to me? 

I think I know what it is. Maybe blocking any people what so ever on my filter. Will that be hard? definitely! Why? I'm not sure. Maybe that is a real sign of defeat as how little control I have over myself. It' s a big slap in the face for my huge ego. It means going totally dark. Not even a teensy weensy. But I will do it for my loving God and father, He deserves it! Will it help? That's his problem. I gotta show him something. I cannot come empty-handed. 

Thank you guy's for listening and hope to keep posting how it goes. 

Cheers to our loving father!!

Yitzchok

Sorry to hear about your fall. I have two contradictory comments. One - focus on all the days, hours and minutes that you did stay ne'eman to Hashem. You are a hero in this 21st century of dor ha-mabul. Realize that and dont beat yourself up (down).     Two - be miserable enough about what happened to add something to your recovery program. Start speaking with chevra, consider 12 steps, join a conference call.    In reality the two comments do not contradict each other, but thats for another time.....

Thank you HHM,

What you're saying is 100% right. I called up the filter company to block the side entrance I have worked two hours to find, and also colored all skin from showing up. What now? I am not afraid of joining SA since I'm not sure I need it or that I'm ready for it. I already keep in touch with some chevra here, and the conference calls are in the middle of the day which I;m either working or watching porn:grimacing: ..

LoveU,Hashem wrote on 30 Oct 2017 18:02:

No atheists in a foxhole, but there's God in the Fox Den (rt. 41 south of Nashville).

Yitzchok,

IMHO, you are agonizing too much about Hashem and what he thinks about you and your falls. He is your Father and he loves you - unconditionally. He wants the best for you. When you fall, you distance yourself from Him. He still loves you and is waiting for you to turn to Him.

RobFloyd wrote on 31 Oct 2017 11:44:

There is love and then there is LOVE.