tx to all for the insightful, helpful, and inspiring posts. i'm just new at this whole posting thing. if i want to keep posting the ups and downs of my journey, do i continue in this "introduce yourself" thread or am i supposed to start a thread in a diff area?

The current minhag is that here is a great place to keep us up to date with your progress, and you can also start a second thread in the bal batim section to share your marital diaries.

icandoanything wrote on 21 May 2017 17:32:

Post all the ups here and the downs there, and btw you should read all the other dov forum posts too

cordnoy wrote on 21 May 2017 12:14:


Fair enough it could just be a Mashul.

Icandoanything, I am sorry for causing a tangent on your thread. My apologies. 

Icandoanything, did you find an outlet or are you still looking?

bear wrote on 21 May 2017 19:33:

No worries at all. I really like hearing everyone's take. let's not forget k'sheim she'ain partzufeihen domos zu lazu, kach ain da'ioseihen... we each think differently, yet eizehu chochom, halomeid mekol adam, we gain tremendously from hearing and trying to understand each others' perspective. so i really enjoy this.

bear wrote on 21 May 2017 19:40:

tx for checking up. went jogging today for the first time in probably a year and a half. i really daven that i can get into a good groove cuz it really gets those endorphins (happy chemicals in the head) going. hope everyone is finding their nisyonos becoming a little easier. Mar'eivo mas'bio.

Awesome!
Running will make you a GYE model.
both by your actions and by enhancing your looks
I mean who needs prn just look in the mirror. 
I should follow your lead, I have been meaning to go jogging. We will wave when we pass each other tomorrow.
Continued Hatzlacha!!! 

tough day but not in terms of actual desire/slips etc. It's just that the high that I've been on for the last few days since joining GYE is starting to wear off. While I still have not surfed the web for fun in 5 days, but today, I think the adjustment started to get to me and I became a pretty irritable and did not have much patience for friends, wife, kids, etc. and I'm usually not like this. Is this normal? Will it get better? I'm gonna try to listen to some music then try to fall asleep now and see if the sleep helps me be more chilled in the morning.

Hang in there, remember You Can Do Anything!!!!!
​I have also had moods I am not proud of when trying to stop.
Though I am no GYE pro, wonder what the other guys think.
Hatzlacha 

Derech Agav/side point....

Cordnoy Shkoyach on the points you raised in the Rambam (Hil. Teshuva Perek 10 Hal. 3) that I tried to use as support for the idea that one can channel the drive for Women into learning. Your points got me, and led me to think over the Rambam. I think I have answers now to both of your points. In regards to your first point that the Rambam is talking about Ahavas Heshem and not learning, I think that can be answered from the Rambam in Sefer Hametzvos Mitzvah 3. Which writes that the way one attains Ahavas Heshem is through thinking and contemplating over the mitzvos(which I understand to be learning). Accordingly when the Rambam is saying your love for Hashem should be like your love for Women, he is essentially saying that you should be learning so well, that your love for Hashem will be like one who can not stop thinking about a girl. In regards to your second point, were you said that maybe the Rambam is not saying that the drive for women can be channeled to Ahavas Hashem/ learning, but rather is just giving an analogy and saying that Just like you go crazy over that girl, so too you should go crazy over Ahavas Heshem/Torah. I think one can respond as fallows. The Rambam can only make sense if the drive for women can be channeled to Ahavas Hashem. To illustrate. For a Mom to tell her son the same way you love basketball should be the way you love Shakespeare, does not make any sense.  Because maybe the kid likes basketball for the physical activity, adrenaline rush, and competition. And none of these factors are relevant to Shakespeare. Therefore, the mom can not tell her son the way you like basketball is the way you should love Shakespeare. Because his drive for basketball is completely different than what would drive someone to read Shakespeare. So Shakespeare will not satisfy his drives and therefore can not be compared to basketball. On the other hand if a friend tells you he likes watching MINOR league baseball, because he enjoys watching people play who are so much better than your average guy. You can respond, if thats the case than you would really love MAJOR league baseball games, where the players are even better than the minor league players. This comparison makes since, because in this case what is driving the activity (watching very athletic people play) is the same by both. So too by the Rambam in order for the Rambam to make sense the drive for both (women and Ahvas Heshem/learning) needs to be the same. 

Also I think this Idea can be supported from the Noam Elimelech from one of the GYE emails. Here is the quote "The Holy Sefer, Noam Elimelech from Rav Elimelech of Lizensk writes that Yaakov Avinu's attribute was that of Tiferes, meaning "Awesome Beauty". This implies that Yaakov Avinu had the ability to be awestruck by G-dly beauty in all he saw. For example, the Noam Elimelech continues, "When a person eats a tasty food, he should say to himself, "if this food is so good in taste, is it not obvious that all the good and pleasantness is to be found in the Creator--may his name be blessed--without any limit or boundary!"..."and this is the secret of the Pasuk "and Yaakov kissed Rachel".How uplifting and beautiful it is to try to apply this midah of Yaakov Avinu to ourselves. Whenever we see something that turns our hearts to sexual desire, we need to tell ourselves, "If this woman is so beautiful and I desire her so much, how much more beautiful it must be to connect with G-d, who is the infinite source of all beauty, pleasantness and pleasure!""


Lastly, in response to our dear friend and GYE legend Markz. First off want to clarify I love Markz, he was the first person who welcomed me to the Gye forum (as he has done for many other people) and I will always have very positive feelings toward him. Just in regards to what he wrote about the Rabbis who said the "roar of Mir" line. I think he may be using an availability and representativeness heuristics and making a base rate fallacy.  We are all so involved ourselves in this struggle. And interact with and know so many stories of people who struggle. Some of whom happen to be very well respected Rabbis. This makes it very easy for us to imagine or project onto people that they severely struggle in this regard too. For arguments sake, let us say the "roar of Mir" line was completely factually wrong. The options for what was behind the Rabbis saying it is either the Rabbis made an honest mistake in saying that or, that they are hyper sexual and therefore say lines like that. I think the most probable answer is the first, that they just simply made an honest mistake. While true there are well respected Rabbis who struggle most do not. This is the only time I ever heard this Rabbi say a line like this (and I heard him many times), and I never heard his friend say any line like this ( I also heard his friend many times). I therefore feel, the most logical conclusion is that these Rabbis (if the line was wrong) have made an honest mistake. I think to take one line, a person once said in their life, (especially when that line is the only thing you know about the person) and judge a person based off that in an extremely negative light is not fair and unjustified. 

Hatzlacha to everyone, and to quote a mentor I look up to dearly "Stop Stopping, Start Living".

icandoanything wrote on 23 May 2017 03:14:

I hope you wake up on right side of bed.
Hatzlacha we are all routing for you. 
Let us know if things get better. 
What does the velt think, I think it is normal. whats everyone elses take. 

icandoanything wrote on 23 May 2017 03:14:

Very normal withdrawal synptoms. Your body is used to certain relaxation/escaping realitymethods. For the first short while, the body craves those things, in some cases pretty strongly. As time goes on, although the nisayon never disappears, it diminishes in frequency and intensity. Stay strong and daven that the next few days stay clean and iyh you will see a big reduction in the irritability. It is also time to find new kosher and healthy ways to relax and destress. Hatzlocha.  

Keep it up!  

I found something to remember, is that life is made out of ups and downs. So there will always be bums in the road. Its about learning the tools to sail over the waves smoothly. And I tell myself that even if I feel irritable or uncomfortable or unpleasant NOW, it is only temporary and it will go away (especially if I just go do something else). I tested this once when I was lusting and I put a six minute timer on and told myself, I bet when that rings you won't be in that state anymore. And you know what it took about three minutes. Focusing on the fact that you feel uncomfortable holds us back from accepting the feeling, acknowledging it for what it is (an unpleasant feeling) and moving on with life. It's simple, but not always easy.

Oh, and don't forget the pat on the back for not letting it drag you down.

p.s. I used to watch lots of movies (even 'clean' ones) as an escape from reality. I used to feel they were indispensable, now that I haven't watched them in so many months I really don't miss them that much. (btw before it was movies it was video games. I couldn't imagine living without playing them, then when I was playing them I began to feel like I was wasting time, gee whiz. Eventually I guess it bothered me enough that I stopped. I'll still play here and there but only as an activity and not as a life. Maybe movies (the really clean ones) could be used as an activity in the future but who knows. [not sure if this was so relevant]

TzedekChaim wrote on 23 May 2017 14:01:

tx. the "clean" movie paragraph really speaks to me. it's been 9 days and thanks to Hashem, you guys, and some effort on my part, i haven't surfed the web for fun at all. feels good but still can get pretty irritable if i get into a stressful situation. but even that irritability is getting a little better, i think. anyone think i'm taking it too far with the web surfing? i'm a little scared i'm gonna burn myself out, yet i'm scared to start surfing and put myself into sakana.