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A letter to the world 02 Nov 2016 14:43 #297210

I wrote this letter addressed to the world of "frum yidden". I was wondering if anyone has similar thoughts and if theres anything that could be done for real.

The "Oilam Hasheker": An Insiders DescriptionTo whom it may concern:Just as an introduction, I am a "bachur" and I would like to describe what the world looks like from my angle. I am writing this because I feel that even though there is an "inyan" of "Daas Torah", it could be that I can be "moisif" certain "nekudos" because I think that I have seen things from a totally different angle than most adults.As a little backround I am a "bachur" in one of the yeshivas in the country and am having much "hatzlacha" there. I'm a regular normal guy etc.  But its complicated... My story began a while back before the "oilam hatorah" started making a big deal about the internet. I had internet wihtout a filter in my house. 1 day out of curiousity I used the computer in my house to my hearts content viewing stuff that included videos of straight up "giluy arayos" and the like. This went on for a number of days. At some point my parents decided to get a filter and my little game came to an end undetected by my parents. Between then and now the story goes that I managed my way past the filters and sort of got caught by my parents... They switched the filters... and the story continues and I am past that filter as well. At some point I went away to "yeshiva" and to my happiness the "yetzer hara" let loose his grip on me. This feeling of relief continues "ad hayom hazeh" that during the "zman" this "yetzer hara" does not bother me that much. "Bein hazmanim" on the other hand is a time of torturous "nisyonos" as in my house we have "the best and unbeatable filter" around as I heard my father telling someone. I happen to be able to go from nothing to a video of "znus" in under 10 seconds which to me creates an incredible "nisayon", and I usually start the "zman" feeling like a loser that once again I have lost the battle. Every "bein hazmanim" I try coming up with some sort of "mehalech"... some of them work better than others... and the story repeats itself year after year that during the "zman" I learn, and during "bein hazmanim" I look at "shmutz" during "bein hasdarim".I think that I am in a little of a unique situation in that I see the "ra and tov" in a certain "ofen" that others probably don't. This gives me a certain "sinah" against the internet when I am not in a "matzav" of a "ruach shtus".This being said, the first thing I would like to bring out is that there might be many other people like me who seem to be doing fine on the outside but are crying on the inside for help. And even though there might be ways of getting help (GYE and the likes) there is a certain danger in that no one else can tell who is in trouble. The numbers can be in the hundreds or thousands and no one knows. (I'm coming "liafukay" when people go off the "derech" that there are tons of people who see it and are trying to pull them back in...) There is also a problem in that its extremely hard to talk to anyone about these issues because a person with these issues doesn't want anyone to know what he does.The next thing I would like to bring up is the "inyan" of filters, and that for the most part a filter can help so that stuff doesn't pop up accidentally, but if someone is looking to do bad its usually not that hard to get past them. So its true that someone can say that who said we have to try to stop the "bad" people... but it has to be understood that a kid who grows up with internet in his house usually knows how to use it like the palm of his hand and is extremely familiar with it. This means that you can have a regular kid who has never looked at anything bad in his life, and one day when he sits down at the computer he gets a "tavah" to type in something not so good and all of a sudden he's hooked on what shows up. How can it be that there isn't a need to worry about such a thing? I can "kimat" guarantee that there are kids who have such familiarity with a computer (for example myself) and I don't think you can tell me not to be "choshesh" for a "tavah" like this to pop us as it is a "davar yadua" that "tavas nashim" can be very strong especially in young bochurim... I therefore am coming to bring out the extreme danger of having filters and even for people who might not be looking to do bad. And just to add, I've been in the business for long enough to see the direction that the world is heading and that the amount of bad stuff out there has gone up in numbers that are hard to imagine. Because of the "ribui" of "shmutz" it has become increasingly easier to see it for someone looking for it, and even for someone with a filter and who is not trying to find bad things, the "shmutz" is able to make its way onto a screen without someone realizing it.Now it could really be said possibly that such a "chashash" is only "noigaia" to a very small percentage of "klal yisroel" because anyone without internet in their house, or even someone who does have internet but has a filter etc. and absolutely never lets anyone in his household use it and the actual computer is under lock and key does not really have much of a concern because a child who grows up in such a house does not have the same familiarity with the internet and will almost for sure not know how to get past filters. There is also less of a "chashash" that his "tavah" will make him do any extremely drastic moves. But even with this I think that we are still "shayach" to a grave danger. This is because of the crazy increase in technology that allows the internet to be accessed on small cheap devices. And even though that one can possibly stay away from these things by not purchasing one, still there is a problem in that in the next few years they say that every car will be eqipped with internet access etc. and who knows how it can advance after that. So just to speak it out, even though maybe all "bnei torah" will have the internet removed from their car, just imagine what might happen if a "bachur" rents a car... He can be a guy who never looked at bad things before, but alll of a sudden he finds himself alone with totally unfiltered internet. "Kigon zoo" and more can create huge "sakanos" in the very near future. That being said I think that an "aitza" must be found before technology advances to such an extent.I would like to adress for a little this "chashash" that I keep bringing up about people who might get curious to look for bad things... I sometimes like to imagine what would happen if they had internet around in the days of "chazal". We know that even though an average "yarei shamayim" would never be "mizane", still "chazal" made "issurei yichud" because of the "yetzer hara" for "inyanim ailoo" which can be very strong. Even the biggest "gedolim" have to "shtel tzu" to such "gedarim" and "harchakos" that "chazal" were "kovaia". Now we have the internet... compared with the actual "issur" of being "mezane" it could be that it's not as big, but on the other hand there are certain dangers that come with the internet that were not around in the days of "chazal". First of all, a person can be metama" themselves in just seconds. Also it is so extremely easy to access such "tumah", besides the fact that there is no "daas acheres" that might possibly need convincing. When I think of these things it makes me wonder what "gedarim" "chazal" might have made in relation to the internet.I for myself know that I cant't trust myself to be in a house alone with a computer even if it has a filter on it. For me, my "nisayon" is not to be "meyached" with a computer. I know that once I'm alone in a house I am now in a "makom sakana" and  I will end up seeing something I don't want to see at least 50% of the time... I sometimes think to myself that what would happen if I needed to find a job to support a family and my only options were to let my family starve or to get a job that required using the internet, would it be "mutar" for me to take such a job? For me, such an idea is comparable to what many people in America faced so many years ago "beinyan" starving or working on "shabbos".Another thing I would like to mention is that I sometimes have sort of a "it's not fair" kind of a "taina" against any sort of "heter" to allow internet in a house. This is because that "al yedai" this that my parents have decided to get internet with filter in my house I am now "forced" into a certain "matzav" of "ruchniyus" that I absolutely despise. Something like this has never come up in any other "nekuda" of my life, where my parents have such a strong control over a "matzav ruchni" like this. I can always wake up for "shachris" as early as I like, and I can learn as many hours (for the most part) as I want. Such an idea really bothers me, and it's "beetzem shver" almost to allow parents to make decisions like that for their children whithout the child being able to do anything about it because who said that the parents are on the same level in "ruchniyus" as their children. (I'm coming "laafukai" for example if the father is on a "madreiga" where he comes late to "shacharis" that this does not stop a child from "shteiging" to a "madreiga" of coming on time.) And just to be "mosif" a little "hezber" in my "kavana"; it's true that I am not forced "mamash" to look at "shmutz", and I could technically be told to work on myself to be able to hold back from using the internet, I still feel that for myself this is not such a "mehalech". This is for the same reason that no one would ever step foot into a "bais znus" in order to earn millions of dollars and "taynah" that they will work on themselves not be "nichshal". So too in my life, where my being with a computer that has internet means that I already lost the "ikar chelek" of the "nisayon". I feel that my "ikar hishtadlus" should be to stay away from computers. This is what I mean that I am forced into a "matzav ruchni" as when at home I am automatically in a place that has a computer with internet.I would also like to bring out an interesting point in that I personally would like to get rid of internet from my house as opposed to my parents who believe that it should stay. This means that me and my parents have a disagreement as to whether or not it should be there. The problem is that it's not really possible to tell them my side of the argument because talking to them straight means spilling the beans of my activities. And there is also no one else who can speak to them because then my identity would end up being revealed to this 3rd party and my activities would probably end up revealed to my parents. So it comes out that I am waging a silent war against my parents and their beleifs and there is nothing I can do about it...This is a description of the world as I see it from my angle... Just to review the different points that might be "chiddushim" but are very clear in my world   1)The number of "yidden" who have such problems is probably more than the eye can see from the outside. 2) These people are pretty much hidden and therefore it is extremely hard to reach out and pull them in 3) Those people that have problems and are trying to get help are at an extreme disadvantage 4)An average kid who grows up in my "dor" with internet with a filter will very likely know how to get past it and may therefore be putting himself into a "makom nisayon visakana" every time he sits down to a computer 5)Even kids that did not grow up with internet may be in danger as technology advances and this may find people alone with unfiltered internet access all the time.As my letter is coming to an end I would like to speak out my idea for a "mehalach" of an "aitza"... I think that the first step is to "shtel avek" that the internet is totally "asur" and off limits. This includes things that might be seen as a "shtikel tzorech" like airplane tickets and shopping. The next thing that must be "shtelled avek" is that even someone who absolutely must have internet in his home must use it "bgeded dichuya" and not "hutra". This means to say that at least in my house part of the problem is that now that my father must have internet for business purposes, it is also used by him for other things including checking the weather and booking airplane tickets, it is used by my mother for shopping etc. and it is used by all of my siblings ... such a thing should be "shtelled avek" as wrong. "Al yedei" such "hagdaros" it is gained that a child would never use the internet, and would also not see it being used in an "ofen" of the internet being available whenever convenient. If this would happen, there would not be people who are familiar with using the internet enough that in a moment of "tavah" they could be "metamei" themselves.Signed: An Insider

Re: A letter to the world 02 Nov 2016 19:20 #297216

  • cordnoy
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II am shocked.
I would never have known.
 this is achidush nifla v'atzum.
Do you think someone should tell the moetzes about this thing called internet?
Maybe they should start an organization to filter computers properly.
Perhaps there should be an online forum where these things can be discussed openly?
Efshar, they should be kovea l'ma'aseh that every school should have a mashgiach where the kids can have someone to talk to.
And here, ich bin nit zicher, but ulay v'ulay, schools should have parents sign a shtar with their rav's signatures there as well, attesting to their internet policies in their house.

And now, I will really say something based upon the novelties above: perhaps a rebbe can mention to his teire talmidim that they can talk to him about such stuff and the world as we know it will not collapse on top of them.

One final point: seems the writer is a bochur. Now, he can be 40, but I somehow doubt it. Did the gedolim just recently begin a crusade against the internet? Was this like just letze yar?

I wish I was so smart when I was a bochur.

B'hatzlachah to all
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Re: A letter to the world 02 Nov 2016 20:29 #297217

  • shlomo24
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The Internet is definitely the source of all problems. I agree completely. (I must be honest in that I wasn't able to get through the whole post).
If you're an LGBTQ or LGBTQ-questioning person and looking for someone who can understand you, feel free to reach out. I promise no judgement and to try and listen the best I can. 

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Re: A letter to the world 03 Nov 2016 20:46 #297278

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Welcome!  How are you doing personally?  I am more worried about you at this point than changing the world.

Re: A letter to the world 22 Feb 2021 13:58 #363947

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shnayim ochazin wrote on 02 Nov 2016 14:43:
I wrote this letter addressed to the world of "frum yidden". I was wondering if anyone has similar thoughts and if theres anything that could be done for real.

The "Oilam Hasheker": An Insiders DescriptionTo whom it may concern:Just as an introduction, I am a "bachur" and I would like to describe what the world looks like from my angle. I am writing this because I feel that even though there is an "inyan" of "Daas Torah", it could be that I can be "moisif" certain "nekudos" because I think that I have seen things from a totally different angle than most adults.As a little backround I am a "bachur" in one of the yeshivas in the country and am having much "hatzlacha" there. I'm a regular normal guy etc.  But its complicated... My story began a while back before the "oilam hatorah" started making a big deal about the internet. I had internet wihtout a filter in my house. 1 day out of curiousity I used the computer in my house to my hearts content viewing stuff that included videos of straight up "giluy arayos" and the like. This went on for a number of days. At some point my parents decided to get a filter and my little game came to an end undetected by my parents. Between then and now the story goes that I managed my way past the filters and sort of got caught by my parents... They switched the filters... and the story continues and I am past that filter as well. At some point I went away to "yeshiva" and to my happiness the "yetzer hara" let loose his grip on me. This feeling of relief continues "ad hayom hazeh" that during the "zman" this "yetzer hara" does not bother me that much. "Bein hazmanim" on the other hand is a time of torturous "nisyonos" as in my house we have "the best and unbeatable filter" around as I heard my father telling someone. I happen to be able to go from nothing to a video of "znus" in under 10 seconds which to me creates an incredible "nisayon", and I usually start the "zman" feeling like a loser that once again I have lost the battle. Every "bein hazmanim" I try coming up with some sort of "mehalech"... some of them work better than others... and the story repeats itself year after year that during the "zman" I learn, and during "bein hazmanim" I look at "shmutz" during "bein hasdarim".I think that I am in a little of a unique situation in that I see the "ra and tov" in a certain "ofen" that others probably don't. This gives me a certain "sinah" against the internet when I am not in a "matzav" of a "ruach shtus".This being said, the first thing I would like to bring out is that there might be many other people like me who seem to be doing fine on the outside but are crying on the inside for help. And even though there might be ways of getting help (GYE and the likes) there is a certain danger in that no one else can tell who is in trouble. The numbers can be in the hundreds or thousands and no one knows. (I'm coming "liafukay" when people go off the "derech" that there are tons of people who see it and are trying to pull them back in...) There is also a problem in that its extremely hard to talk to anyone about these issues because a person with these issues doesn't want anyone to know what he does.The next thing I would like to bring up is the "inyan" of filters, and that for the most part a filter can help so that stuff doesn't pop up accidentally, but if someone is looking to do bad its usually not that hard to get past them. So its true that someone can say that who said we have to try to stop the "bad" people... but it has to be understood that a kid who grows up with internet in his house usually knows how to use it like the palm of his hand and is extremely familiar with it. This means that you can have a regular kid who has never looked at anything bad in his life, and one day when he sits down at the computer he gets a "tavah" to type in something not so good and all of a sudden he's hooked on what shows up. How can it be that there isn't a need to worry about such a thing? I can "kimat" guarantee that there are kids who have such familiarity with a computer (for example myself) and I don't think you can tell me not to be "choshesh" for a "tavah" like this to pop us as it is a "davar yadua" that "tavas nashim" can be very strong especially in young bochurim... I therefore am coming to bring out the extreme danger of having filters and even for people who might not be looking to do bad. And just to add, I've been in the business for long enough to see the direction that the world is heading and that the amount of bad stuff out there has gone up in numbers that are hard to imagine. Because of the "ribui" of "shmutz" it has become increasingly easier to see it for someone looking for it, and even for someone with a filter and who is not trying to find bad things, the "shmutz" is able to make its way onto a screen without someone realizing it.Now it could really be said possibly that such a "chashash" is only "noigaia" to a very small percentage of "klal yisroel" because anyone without internet in their house, or even someone who does have internet but has a filter etc. and absolutely never lets anyone in his household use it and the actual computer is under lock and key does not really have much of a concern because a child who grows up in such a house does not have the same familiarity with the internet and will almost for sure not know how to get past filters. There is also less of a "chashash" that his "tavah" will make him do any extremely drastic moves. But even with this I think that we are still "shayach" to a grave danger. This is because of the crazy increase in technology that allows the internet to be accessed on small cheap devices. And even though that one can possibly stay away from these things by not purchasing one, still there is a problem in that in the next few years they say that every car will be eqipped with internet access etc. and who knows how it can advance after that. So just to speak it out, even though maybe all "bnei torah" will have the internet removed from their car, just imagine what might happen if a "bachur" rents a car... He can be a guy who never looked at bad things before, but alll of a sudden he finds himself alone with totally unfiltered internet. "Kigon zoo" and more can create huge "sakanos" in the very near future. That being said I think that an "aitza" must be found before technology advances to such an extent.I would like to adress for a little this "chashash" that I keep bringing up about people who might get curious to look for bad things... I sometimes like to imagine what would happen if they had internet around in the days of "chazal". We know that even though an average "yarei shamayim" would never be "mizane", still "chazal" made "issurei yichud" because of the "yetzer hara" for "inyanim ailoo" which can be very strong. Even the biggest "gedolim" have to "shtel tzu" to such "gedarim" and "harchakos" that "chazal" were "kovaia". Now we have the internet... compared with the actual "issur" of being "mezane" it could be that it's not as big, but on the other hand there are certain dangers that come with the internet that were not around in the days of "chazal". First of all, a person can be metama" themselves in just seconds. Also it is so extremely easy to access such "tumah", besides the fact that there is no "daas acheres" that might possibly need convincing. When I think of these things it makes me wonder what "gedarim" "chazal" might have made in relation to the internet.I for myself know that I cant't trust myself to be in a house alone with a computer even if it has a filter on it. For me, my "nisayon" is not to be "meyached" with a computer. I know that once I'm alone in a house I am now in a "makom sakana" and  I will end up seeing something I don't want to see at least 50% of the time... I sometimes think to myself that what would happen if I needed to find a job to support a family and my only options were to let my family starve or to get a job that required using the internet, would it be "mutar" for me to take such a job? For me, such an idea is comparable to what many people in America faced so many years ago "beinyan" starving or working on "shabbos".Another thing I would like to mention is that I sometimes have sort of a "it's not fair" kind of a "taina" against any sort of "heter" to allow internet in a house. This is because that "al yedai" this that my parents have decided to get internet with filter in my house I am now "forced" into a certain "matzav" of "ruchniyus" that I absolutely despise. Something like this has never come up in any other "nekuda" of my life, where my parents have such a strong control over a "matzav ruchni" like this. I can always wake up for "shachris" as early as I like, and I can learn as many hours (for the most part) as I want. Such an idea really bothers me, and it's "beetzem shver" almost to allow parents to make decisions like that for their children whithout the child being able to do anything about it because who said that the parents are on the same level in "ruchniyus" as their children. (I'm coming "laafukai" for example if the father is on a "madreiga" where he comes late to "shacharis" that this does not stop a child from "shteiging" to a "madreiga" of coming on time.) And just to be "mosif" a little "hezber" in my "kavana"; it's true that I am not forced "mamash" to look at "shmutz", and I could technically be told to work on myself to be able to hold back from using the internet, I still feel that for myself this is not such a "mehalech". This is for the same reason that no one would ever step foot into a "bais znus" in order to earn millions of dollars and "taynah" that they will work on themselves not be "nichshal". So too in my life, where my being with a computer that has internet means that I already lost the "ikar chelek" of the "nisayon". I feel that my "ikar hishtadlus" should be to stay away from computers. This is what I mean that I am forced into a "matzav ruchni" as when at home I am automatically in a place that has a computer with internet.I would also like to bring out an interesting point in that I personally would like to get rid of internet from my house as opposed to my parents who believe that it should stay. This means that me and my parents have a disagreement as to whether or not it should be there. The problem is that it's not really possible to tell them my side of the argument because talking to them straight means spilling the beans of my activities. And there is also no one else who can speak to them because then my identity would end up being revealed to this 3rd party and my activities would probably end up revealed to my parents. So it comes out that I am waging a silent war against my parents and their beleifs and there is nothing I can do about it...This is a description of the world as I see it from my angle... Just to review the different points that might be "chiddushim" but are very clear in my world   1)The number of "yidden" who have such problems is probably more than the eye can see from the outside. 2) These people are pretty much hidden and therefore it is extremely hard to reach out and pull them in 3) Those people that have problems and are trying to get help are at an extreme disadvantage 4)An average kid who grows up in my "dor" with internet with a filter will very likely know how to get past it and may therefore be putting himself into a "makom nisayon visakana" every time he sits down to a computer 5)Even kids that did not grow up with internet may be in danger as technology advances and this may find people alone with unfiltered internet access all the time.As my letter is coming to an end I would like to speak out my idea for a "mehalach" of an "aitza"... I think that the first step is to "shtel avek" that the internet is totally "asur" and off limits. This includes things that might be seen as a "shtikel tzorech" like airplane tickets and shopping. The next thing that must be "shtelled avek" is that even someone who absolutely must have internet in his home must use it "bgeded dichuya" and not "hutra". This means to say that at least in my house part of the problem is that now that my father must have internet for business purposes, it is also used by him for other things including checking the weather and booking airplane tickets, it is used by my mother for shopping etc. and it is used by all of my siblings ... such a thing should be "shtelled avek" as wrong. "Al yedei" such "hagdaros" it is gained that a child would never use the internet, and would also not see it being used in an "ofen" of the internet being available whenever convenient. If this would happen, there would not be people who are familiar with using the internet enough that in a moment of "tavah" they could be "metamei" themselves.Signed: An Insider

Bump

Re: A letter to the world 22 Feb 2021 13:59 #363948

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gibbor120 wrote on 03 Nov 2016 20:46:
Welcome!  How are you doing personally?  I am more worried about you at this point than changing the world.

Ya buddy, hows it goin??

Re: A letter to the world 22 Feb 2021 18:42 #363957

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..
Feel free to contact me happyyid613@gmail.com
My thread
Last Edit: 11 Apr 2021 17:55 by happyyid.

Re: A letter to the world 22 Feb 2021 18:44 #363958

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Hey Shnayim Ochazin,
People here really care about you... 
Feel free to contact me happyyid613@gmail.com
My thread

Re: A letter to the world 22 Feb 2021 20:17 #363970

Hi everyone I see someone has unearthed a letter I wrote about 100 years ago! It's been a while since I wrote that... but as a more straightforward introduction to myself...
I got involved with pornography at age 12 on my parents unfiltered computer. Through that I discovered the "joys" of masturbation. I have since then had strong cravings to get my hands on unfiltered devices and "enjoy myself". I am now 25 married with a baby. Looking back at where I was when I wrote that letter to where I am today (besides maturing a bit and trying to help myself before the world) I've made an interesting observation. When I sit down in front of an unfiltered device I still have the exact same feeling of "excitement" that I had from that first time. The Nisayon is also still just about the same. Realizing this is pretty bad news... like if in the last 13 years nothing changed where will I be in another 13? I then thought about it a bit more, and realized how much I really have changed... Being in the matzav that I'm in changed my life in such an incredible way... For example - my main yetzer hara as a bachur was mainly bein hazmanim... in the afternoon when no one was home i would use the computer to my hearts content. I at some point made a decision that I must learn second seder bein hazmanim to get myself out of the house. For years I did this a solid 2 3 hour seder in the afternoon in a empty shul all to myself. And although I would sometimes bidavka come late after the house was empty and would fall, at the end of the day look at all those hours of learning I got! Same goes with davening and musar seder and learning with hasmada. I have always been one of the good guys in Yeshiva, but I know for sure that all the pushing and "pressure" that I put on myself was always in a effort to "kill" that yetzer hara. And although I wouldn't say that any specific "mihalech" has made me feel like I'm "in control", I have gained so tremendously over the years and this nisayon has really changed me over entirely

Re: A letter to the world 22 Feb 2021 20:21 #363971

  • yeshivaguy
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Great to have u back man! And I love ur name
So let’s talk about our game plan.
U got filters in ur house?

Re: A letter to the world 22 Feb 2021 21:04 #363979

  • wilnevergiveup
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YeshivaGuy wrote on 22 Feb 2021 20:21:
Great to have u back man! And I love ur name
So let’s talk about our game plan.
U got filters in ur house?

Before a game plan lets firs figure out how this guy is actually doing and if he already has a working mehalech. 
Check out My Thread and The Truth

(עשה רצונו כרצונך (אבות,ב:ד

Feel free to email me  wilnevergiveupgye@gmail.com
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