thanks waydown for a really great post!

I don't have any sage advice. You are struggling with some issues, which is quite normal and understandable. You have a plan and you are reaching out. Those are all great things! Keep up the good work, and keep us posted.

ataglance12345.

Yes I totally agree. In fact I'll open up a bit more. For about a half year I have been flirting on-line with shiktzas. But BH it never came past that. The primary reason is all the barriers placed in front of me (As a person living like a frum jew there are lots of barriers. For example when often asked for a pic I never had that good looking muscular goyish look. I am bald with a cholent boch!). I was almost comfortable with it since I felt its not likely to get further. ( A silly thought but thats my thought process.Its even more silly considering that I have a very sweet charming personality. So whats to say that some shiktza won't fall for that despite my lack of knowledge and looks of the pop culture.) Then recently I found a frum couple falling off the derech. (The exact details I will leave out.) The husabnd is totally open to his wife flirting and actually gets turned on when she does. For now he has his limits and won't let anything explicitley and we never meet except via video chat twice.(yes thats already too much) More than flirting though I have connected to his wife in a very emotional way. We share simailar though not identical struggles that we both faced as a child and still suffer from. I have never felt so comfortable shmuzing & flirting with another lady like her. I developed a certain emotional connection that I have never developed even with my own wife. And I think the same can be said of her & her husband That together with seeing a family member actually get divorced because of her husbands extreme sex addictions has got me thinking.
Bottom line one way or the other its a very slippery slop. If I don't fall with a shiktza i can with a frum jew lo alinu. And my rule of "not fitting in" with shiktzas is far from guareenteed. (That last point should be obviously but when the yetzer hara talks its not so obvious.)

ataglance12345 wrote:


sorry, i missed this post.
Email me please at thenewme613@hotmail.com

Hello Chevrai,

Just wanted to update folks, not to be so gaivadik that I think folks need to hear from me but here goes...

So, just to recap as you can read previously, I had a big fall beginning of July. I am very happy to say that I have not stepped foot into any sort of tavern or drinking establishment since my first post. Nor have I had any sort of exposure to traife eating nor to non tzniyusdik images or environments that are specfically designed for hashtas zera type activities or with women who "work" in that field.

Of course, it is summer, and just walking around with ones eyes actually open is enough of a nisayon and temptation for anyone.

Was able to fast for almost all of Tisha B'av. Felt very ill though late in the day and drank some powerade well after chatzot...justified it many ways but not feeling too guilty about it. I was able to refrain form all solid food and only had about two tiny sips of powerade late in the day. So, all in all a pretty successful fast for me. All relative.

The yetzer hora is pulling hard to get me back in to a tavern, but I am going to fight him like mad.

I have come to the conclusion that my issue is not alcohol per se, it is truly SA related type activity. I had some "lechaims" on hte past Shabbosim, but drank nothing during hte week. I mean nothing alcoholic at all, period, and did not crave alcohol per se. I craved the bar environment though. As I am obsessed with women, and cannot stop thinking about having relations with pretty much every one that my eyes fall upon. The alcohol only allows that taiva to be realized and acted upon without the normal controls of being sober. This is my yetzer hora that I will need to fight and have fought my whole life.

I have not enrolled in any SA groups in person or on line, not sure why but just have not felt the need to do so. I want to get my doctor's appointment taken care of before I do anything else.

I still have not seen my doctor, my appointment is not until next month, but it is on the calendar at least.

So, that is my update, thanks for listening.

Form Strength to Strength. From small victories to ever larger ones.

Welcome back

Good recognition.

Start with a call perhaps or read a page or two from one of the books.

Bhatzlachah

Well, I come to you malay busha o chleemah. Guess where I went last night? B"H, it was not as tumadik as it could have or has been, but I feel a great sense of failure. I just need some chizuk. B"H I did not relapse to the full depths of some of my more horrible behavior...I avoided any distinct physical contact with women, I ate "vegetarian" having a tuna sandwich at a restaurant (is this better than bacon cheeseburger, I guess) taht I know uses kosher bread.

Let me also mention that for two days before this I did hashtas zera levatala without any visual aids, but last night went on my smartphone (I know, I know) and did it again.

I am going to try an look at the bright side here...I was able to control myself for almost a full month, and that is great. And when I found myself in this tumahdik environment, I was able to control myself a little more than in the past and did not engage in dangerous or truly unseemly activities with nashim.

So, I guess that is better.

So, chevray, what is the best thing to do after a relapse of this sort? And falling off the wagon as far as hashtas zera?

Hey, I lasted a month, shouldn't I be happy about that?

One word for you...ugh.

So of course, I did not do the shvuah for the six months. Since I no I am going to break the shvuah to not go to a bar, then I really should not take it. How is that for defeatist thinking. Jews do not belong in bars, clubs, etc. etc. It is really that simple, but why can't I stay away?

Focus on your progress and make a new commitment to sobriety for today. Tomorrow you are free to make that same commitment again or not. I don't know if it matters what Jews do or don't do, or how they are supposed to behave or not. What I do know matters is that you want to be an upstanding person and that you are becoming one. So take it one day at a time and do the next right thing.

serenity wrote:


Agreed. You've definitely taken some significant steps. There may be more steps to take, but there is momentum, even with the recent fall(s).

As far as what to do now, I think the Taphsic Shuvua might be a good idea, but not for 6 months. How about for a week? Or even a day? A long term Shavua may make it much harder to take things day by day.

Good vaach! How's it going ?

Dear ataglance12345 (ugh the fake names thing is such a pity) it's Dov and I want to ask why you call the bars such disparaging names if you desire and love them so much. I relate to the worshipping of such places. But can you just explain that a bit so I understand - and perhaps we will get somewhere real together?

"at a glance12345" is the first five days on the calendar in my office, the first thing I saw when thinking of a name. lol

Dov, your question is an easy one to answer as far as i am concerned. Isn't this a classic love/hate relationship.

I love going but hate myself for doing it. I hate the bar I go to for existing and pulling me in to it of my own complete volition of course, but I need to take it out on the bar for putting me in such a position. Ridiculous logic, I know. So I disparage the bar that I love going to. I have even tried in the past to get myself banned from the place and have asked them to not let me in any longer, and yet after a few months a new staff or bartender comes in and there I am again. This has been going on for 15 years or so, if you can believe that.

I am going to make a very sincere effort to not to set foot in a traife environment for all of Elul. The King is in the Field, I must make an effort to greet him with great humility, fear and trepidation, but greet him nonetheless.

Elul is the time to change ones behavior or at least refrain from such negative behavior.

I may never be able to stay out of these places. The pull is just too strong and they are so ubiquitous and a main part of the greater "culture" where I live that it may be impossible to stay out indefinately.

I may have to suffice with a month at a time and then renewing again.

I am trying, but perhaps I will never succeed. But I imagine that the effort and the journey are the key.

Just as long as I do not endanger myself or others along the way with m reckless behavior when I fall...that is my big fear.

Wish me Chizuk!

Maybe I need to move to Utah. Or some Muslim country. Not a lot of taverns in these places. But seriously on that, it would help if these places were not so darn accessible and ubiquitous where I live. But I guess that's the point isn't it. They don't want these to be hard to get to. Maybe we can get back to prohibition and make it a lot harder to find an open tavern. 

Ugh. This struggle is so hard. Maybe I can just go OTD and forget about it. lol Have you noticed all the books coming out about people going OTD from their Chasidic background? It is something of a trend. Bizarre.

What does it mean to be Jewish, in its essence, to me, is fighting and controlling the very strong natural urges to engage in vastly immoral activities. Now go out and learn.