Hashivalisesonyishecho wrote:


That's something you have to decide for yourself.

Hashivalisesonyishecho wrote:


This is a forum to help people fulfill their potential in as much as lust stops us doing that. Therefore this forum is geared towards overcoming lust. What I've seen in my time here is that when people start to overcome lust, the potential that was being held back starts to shine through. If your potential has been blocked by lust then you're absolutely in the right place, however you seem to be skipping several crucial steps in your journey. You need to address the lust first. This forum is not going to be helpful unless you do.

But that's not what you said. You said that you've lost potential because you've left the yeshiva and don't learn as much as you'd like. If that's the only problem then an online forum is not the right place. The right place is sitting in the beis hamedrash and talking to your Rav.

But it seems clear that there is more to it and you're holding back a lot. How helpful this forum can be for you largely depends on how much you write of yourself. Newaction's moshol of going to the doctor was brilliant.

You do seem to be experiencing a lot of shame. That's not a good thing. Guilt is fine, but what you write goes way beyond that. It goes from "I made a mistake" to "I am a mistake". That's a great victory for the yetzer hora. He's got you believing that you've managed somehow to remove the tzelem elokim that Hashem Himself gave you. That's not true. You still have amazing potential. How do I know - cos you're still alive!

Shame lives in the dark, in secret. As soon as you share it with other (understanding) people the shame starts to slip away. That's a great first step.

You're not ready yet. That's fine, take your time. when you feel ready to reach out we'll be here for you.

Welcome,

We are lookin' forward to hearin' more.
What have you tried in the past to recover - if recovery is what you needed?

b'hatzlachah

[quote="newaction" post=246876][quote="Hashivalisesonyishecho" post=246869]I want to start from scratch. The problem is that years ago I saw the Jew in myself, that is the legacy of our forefathers. Today, the Avrohom in me does not know me anymore and the Israel does not recognize me. Only hashem our redeemer can help. But I have sinned to him, and with my own doing, I removed myself from the proximity of my yeshua. With my wickedness, I have removed my tzelem elokim. I want to open up a sefer and learn. This is something I am so talented with and good at. But when I sit down learn, I just can't bring myself to begin. It seems as though the torah hakdosha doesn't want to know me as I am today. I can't blame the torah for that. I guess the yodea taalumos does not quite yet attest to the reality of my teshuva. So I am left with nothing. I don't wish to say where that can lead me.

Hashiva , All of the above mentioned was דברי היצר הרע .

Yes and no. All of the above words are true and we actually find them in various tfilos. They can and often are used by the Yetzer Hora to discourage R"L. I have not spoken it for that purpose - I am here, am I not? I am in the process of telling my story. I am (so far) speaking in generalizations. Maybe I will get specific at some point and add detail but what I have told here is actually my story and describes what the situation is at present. The thing that I wrote about avrohom and yisroel, I used to say in hebrew in the good old days(which weren't really completely good because I was somewhat of a hypocrite) I used to wake up in the middle of the night and do tikun chatzos where we say those words which originate in scripture. I miss that. But it couldn't last because in other areas I was not behaving like a Jew who says tikun chatzos. That is to say I was looking where I shouldn't - I was being too much of an 'observant' Jew. The fact that my system no longer tolerates the double standard, while painful, is really a good thing because it might just force me to do teshuva. I mentioned this to see how comfortable I can be if I open up, because I will want not only want to speak of my failures but also of what I should be and what I strive for as it's all one package.

Hashivalisesonyishecho
It's important to read the GYE Handbook.
Knowing the problem is half of the solution.

Keep posting.

Brother Hashiva ; I can tell you that we know your pain and we feel you. Everybody here is struggling with the same issues. Again we congratulate you for reaching out it took a lot from you. Now take advantage of your anonymity and put "the cards on the table" that is whenever you feel the time is ripe. It must be hard to look at some realities of ourselves face to face but thats when the healing starts .You are carrying a big pekaleh on your shoulders drop it to the forum and many here will help you with the burden and it will feel much more light .By being alone and isolated your situation will not change for the better but the opposite C"V . All here are eager to help to listen and even to learn from you , i am sure of that. Behatzlacha in your journey.

[quote="doingtshuva" post=246919]Hashivalisesonyishecho
It's important to read the GYE Handbook.
Knowing the problem is half of the solution.

Keep posting. [/quote

I didn't know about this handbook and I thank you for introducing me to it.

There is a lot of talk on this thread right now and not a lot of walk. Lets start walking!

You can find the handbook here: GYE Handbook

belmont4175 wrote:


I thank you greatly for this. I always knew of this, but could never do it. My excuse was that I don't have person who is in the words of R' Ellimelech נאמן in the sense of not losing respect for me and certainly not telling anyone. So I was left without this סגולה נפלאה. Now that you suggest doing it through this forum, my inhibitions don't apply. I will give it some thought because I am still finding it very hard, but I will probably have to conclude to do it.

Dear Hashivalisesonyishecho, concerning your question about the definition of an addict, as Watson said it is something we come to understand about ourselves but there are resources and guidelines that will guide you. At a minimum you should read the first 3 chapters of the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous and the fist 5 paragraphs of Chapter 4.

In one sentence the Big Book basically sums it up as concerns an alcolholic " If, when you honestly want to, you find you cannot quit entirely, or if when drinking, you have little control over the amount you take, you are probably alcoholic."

Hatzlacha!

Here goes.
I grew up with a TV at home. My father is a clean soul with no such issues. He made a mistake by not knowing that other people and even his kids are not necessarily that way. I am 43 but even when I was a kid TV was bad enough. The worst part of it was that through it the entire issue became Naase Lo Keheter. When I was a bochur I learnt well and all but did not practice shmiras ainayim. Passing by a magazine rack on the street etc. I was once at a friend's house and his younger sister was sleeping on the couch and not properly covered. She was sound asleep so I took the opportunity and kissed her in the very worst place. She never knew and neither did anyone. This is the first and probably the only time I ever admit to this to other people. I do this to fulfill the words of R Elimelech as directed to me by belmont4175. From that moment I felt like I broke my purity. This felt much worse to me than the mere lack of shmiras ainayim and rightfully so. Through my years in yeshiva I was an excellent bochur in all aspects besides this most important aspect and often I allowed myself to entertain impure thoughts which although I didn't intend to masturbate I sometimes pushed it past the point of no return. Too many times. After I got married my wife complained that I look at dirty pictures in stores so I learned to appear as thought I didn't. I did not and still do not behave with the correct level of tznius when being with my wife. I continued to do well in my learning and other mitzvos. Then came the internet. I got a computer for business needs only about 7 years ago. That's when my lack of shmiras ainayim became a serious problem. There were times that I was clean for a few months in a row and I thought I had done tshuva until I submitted to the yetzer hora for a few days and then was again clean for a while thinking that this time I really did tshuva. During the years I had a tremendous amount of tzaros. It is probably because of these sins as it says velo yireh becha ervas davar veshav meacharecho. I have also lost my strength to be a masmid in learning. I can hardly bring myself to learn at all. I am now again clean for the recent while but I don't rely on it. What I am doing now with this coming out of isolation and posting here as newaction and others have encouraged me to do is a different step in my attempting to do tshuva. So again I hope that this time I am doing tshuva for real and for good. If it will turn out to be so I will be thankful to the internet which has brought out the worst in me to the point that I HAD to change. I hope to finally for the first time in my life become a real shomer torah umitzvos and stay that way.

Welcome Hashiva!!!!

I just read through your thread the first time, and let me tell you i really feel sorry for you for what you went through. But even more sorry for how hard you are on yourself. many of the chevrah already posted about it earlier that we need to focus on what we can do NOW. What was was, many of us feel very similar to the way you sound but we need to take a deep breath and focus on hashem will for us now. We need to keep in mind that hashems love for us is beyond our imagination he is always there for us and awaiting every (little) good deed we do.

I see you are really listening to the advice from the guys and started opening up b"h. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!!!

Your holy soul is there within you even if you don't feel it at all times. And is still waiting to bring out the best in you.

Keep On Posting!!!!

Thank you HLSY.

There are many parts of your story I identify with. I was also a good bochur in yeshiva. I learnt all day without a break, except for going to bathroom to act out. I felt like a hypocrite. I also found that after leaving yeshiva learning was impossible and I got sucked more and more into my addiction. Now b"H I've been working my program for a while now and my learning is improving once again, something I though was not possible a year ago.

Before I started my current program I tried everything I could think of to stop acting out. I fought and fought and managed to get one month clean then a few days of acting out, then one month clean, then a few days of acting out.

I also felt the guilt of my aveirah very strongly. Every time was my last. I was going to do teshuvah. Every yom kippur was going to be the one when I finally left it all behind me and would not act out all year. How I loved yom kippur. How I loved being delusional.

Now I realise that I am a lust addict my feelings on it are very different. I no longer feel guilty, I no longer worry about teshuvah. I'm not a sinner trying to repent, I'm a sick man who's trying to get well.

I find your name interesting. These were the words Dovid hamelech davened after he 'acted out' so-to-speak with Bassheva. Chazal speak about how he had no control over his actions at that time. I identify with it so much. I have had no control over my acting out. I have tried everything I could to stop by myself and found I could not. I am utterly powerless over it. I have to rely on Hashem to make me better because there is nothing that I can do for myself. I have tried thousands of times with hundreds of plans and I cannot overcome this myself.

That's why I joined my current program which is designed to help me become a different person, with Hashem's help. As someone with many year sobriety said "the person I once was acted out, and the person I once was will act out again." In other words he felt that only way to stay sober was to work on becoming a fundamentally different person and building a different kind of connection with Hashem. "Lev tohor bro li Elokim" - create for me a pure heart. Create means something new, something fundamentally different from what was there before.

Hatzlocho on your journey and please keep on posting.

Brother Hashiva thank you for sharing with us some of your history that is tormenting you. We feel sorry for your pain .Like with reading the GYE handbook its very important to come to the realization if you have an addiction . Chances are you do have . The GYE classification into three categories will help you through that , please take a look at that . Listen to me please:
The issue of "sins" and "aveiros" , you are going to put this issue aside for a big long while.Simply because chances are we are dealing here with a totally different ball game which is called addiction. And it has almost NOTHING to do with sinning . Going back to the Moshol of the DR. Somebody who comes in bleeding to the emergency room because of a shot gun wound and some knife stabbing . We are not going to look now for his history of high blood pressure , cholesterol and diabetes .Or whether he is up to date with his vitamins and minerals. That would be nonsense. Now we have to stop the bleeding and save his life making sure he has VITAL SIGNS which are among others , breathing and a heart pulse . An Addiction is more like a sickness than a flaw in Yiras Shamayim . This sickness atrophies our mind ,body and spirit. You cant even be a simple mentchs while this is ravaging through all your system. But there is a way out of this , definitely ! You did exactly the right thing by posting and reaching out . So you are on the right track . Then after way long that you are out of the woods we can talk about "aveiros" . But this is mamash not the time , not the topic and not the issue at hand. Behatzlacha !!!

Wow!
DD, Watson, NA, great words of wisdom!
Mr. H, good start at openin' up; I sincerely hope and pray that you listen to the pearls of wisdom mentioned above.

b'hatzlachah

I thank you all beyond words for caring. I am crying as I am reading your words. It seems that when brothers speak form the heart that's what happens. vayaivk yosef bedabram ailav(though the 'yosef' part of the analogy is absurdly inaccurate.)

It seems the consensus is that it shouldn't be looked at as sin but rather sickness. May I question that? Because I wont be able to look at it that way if I don't see it that way. Isn't all sin basically sickness? ain adam choteh ella im kain nichnas bo ruach shtus. Hashem is truly kind and understanding but if someone sins he blemishes his soul and then the repair is painful. Its mamash gehenom. So that's what gehenom is. If I have had a share of gehenom on this world do you not think I should blame myself for sinning? As the gemera says mi chashud kudsha berich hu lemebad dina belo dina. So why would it be more correct and also more healthy for me to look at it differently. By the way even if a person sins it is hashem's doing, as sonofhteking wrote in post #246872 quotin rav tzadok. So why should we not call it sin.

Also and probably more important, now that I am admitting and opening up, so I have done that. Now what? Should I just try to get on with my life, hopefully a better life from now on? I don't feel like it's all good yet, far from it.