Hey, had a funny thought last night while trying to fall asleep.

Y'know how some of us turn pretty women into objects and even worship them by running after them in real life, pictures/schmutz, for their flirty approval or fantasy, and give our own power away to them?

(say, "Yeah, so what?")

Y'know how by pretending they are our big heroes we are turning them into like a drug sort of?

(say, "Yeah genius, we all know that. So what already?!)

So...we are 'Heroine addicts!'

Get it? Heroine!!

Ahh haha hahah!!

Thanks.

What's that, you say, Cornoy? Take my medicine again? Oh...ok.

Hey ov! That was a good one!

Dov wrote:

newaction wrote:

Because I see that when quoting you don't necessarily have to add anything.

?

How are you doing Newaction?

How is the stay at your friends house?

It seems like some sweet individuals think that maybe the Torah and all its seforim are not talking to (what some like to call) an "addict".

And also that perhaps the Torah and its seforim and its sages dont know(god forbid) what its like to be an "addict" and have never experienced the life of an addict at his lowest point etc. and dont have the experiences necessary to address these issues in contrast to the goy or lhavdil a yid that has experienced the lowest point etc.

This consequently is the logic that some of our sweet friends utilize in trying to explain why there is a need to davka delve into the chocho bagoyim taamin etc, and that only thru people that have themselves experienced all the hell of the life of an "addict", can an "addict" benefit from in the most beneficial manner.

We can all try to be mechazek those that think along the above lines and ourselves as well.

We remind ourselves that the chochmas hatora and our holy sages have more understanding about anything and everything under and above the sun, infinitely more than the one that doesnt possess the holy koach hatorah.

They can address the "addict" way better than the addict specialist can. As the light of the Torah which is hashem himself, created the the "addict" in the first place, as he created everything and everything, as "ein chodosh tachas hashemesh"- surely the creator and his sages know about his very own creation of the aforementioned addict- and its treatment- (even though they have seemingly personally never experienced the addicts life) way better than the one that lacks all of the knowledge of the creator and all his creations including "addictions", , but rather merely experienced personally his individual experience as an addict.

Chocho bagoyim taamin, say the seforim hakdoshim means , that although the Torah is the source of it all including all and any possible chochma that hashem created himself, including addictions etc.- in spite of that, hashem has allowed the goyim to get at least some of the chochma that results from the torah itself and its sages, without having access to the source of the chochma in the first place. i.e hashem and his torah.
So while goyim only got merely what is a result of the torah-chochma-

Am yisroel got that very chochma and infinitely more- from the root itself, i.e. hashem and his torah and its sages.

When we feel sometimes that in spite of all the Torah that we know, we still fall, which might lead us to believe that, it is somehow not enough, of course we should keep trying whatever it is that seems to work for us.

That is exactly what hashem wants from us. That is not to be confused that chas vsholom the torah didnt have the answer for us as much as what we found afterwards from the chochma bagoyim, and addiction experts(god forbid) as we have already explained.

But rather that as the generations get weaker and weaker(as hashem willed it that way) some of us werent blessed yet with the eyes to see it in torah and its sages which is why we have to resort to the second best option, to find ideas that we havent merited yet to see in the torah, to look for it anywhere that we can. That does not mislead us into confusing any of the above. To the contrary, whatever tool we are zoche to find, we can notify all of our friends, and we will immediately see how that idea is in the torah itself. If we dont see it in the torah,as our eyesight is weakened, we simply approach a tazdik and talmid chochom and then we will see how it is god himself that provides us with those tools in the torah.

Happy chodesh nissan!

I don't think anyone here is saying otherwise. But the fact that we don't know how to find the solution in The Torah makes it completely necessary to seek out the solution from wherever we can find it, as you yourself are saying. Some here have used language which seems to indicate that the Torah isn't speaking about addicts and what they mean to say is that in those places where The Torah talks about dealing with the yetzer hora The Torah isn't speaking about addicts. But clearly The Torah is the source of all chochma including how to make an atom bomb and how to use antibiotics to fight infections but nobody has yet been able to learn these things from The Torah and dealing with addictions may be the same.

Dov wrote:
AHA, this is officially the shortest dov post ever. not even a word, just punctuation. I guess a period would be smaller than a question mark .

here ya go...

https://guardyoureyes.com/forum/23-Just-Having-Fun/48068-Bardys-Pub?limit=15&start=675#146474

Thanks for the mareh makom. I thought this important topic, of the shortest dov post, may have been dealt with in the past.

hi hashiveni.

"But clearly The Torah is the source of all chochma including how to make an atom bomb and how to use antibiotics to fight infections but nobody has yet been able to learn these things from The Torah and dealing with addictions may be the same."

Of course there are people that know how to find the above in the torah.
The tanaim were able to be mechaye neisim.
They knew how make the atom bomb,build airplanes, and erevrything and anything that happened down the line was clear to them like the sun. As the gemoro writes about one of the amoriim, that the galaxy rotations were as clear to him as his own city streets.
As the holy chazon ish would respond to medical questions like the best surgeon could ever hope too.

The list of our holy sages knowing everything and seeing everything clearly thru their holy eyes, and eyes of the torah, and their untainted minds clearly goes on and on. As the chozeh was called the seer,hence the name chozeh.

He attained this level through his kedusha and his torah. Every holy tzadik has that clarity. that clarity includes treating and diagnosing the addict as well.

As we are not on that level we resort to secondary measures. The primary tool is seeking those with the eyes that see, as hashem has planted them in every generation, albeit sparsely.

Hashivalisesonyishecho wrote:


That's nice, but the thing an addict is left with is lots and lots of misinformation when he reads the material about fighting the YH. That's the practical issue that people are facing. It's no chidush that all the truth is in the Torah. But it's also irrelevant. Except to make people feel good about the Torah, I guess. But so what?

It's very precious and relevant that the YH stuff in Torah literature is mostly useless and even misleading info for addicts. It leads the addicts to seek and find the tools that actually do work for us. Derech Eretz really is kodmah laTorah, and that's what this is all about.

Well, that and really loving each other as fellow strugglers. You don't show love for another by quoting Torah to try and straighten them out. Rather, as a fellow addicts in the fellowship of recovery, we share ourselves, our shame and pain - and our recovery with anybody who asks for it and is willing to come face to face and open up. And that is where they find the answer. Not verses, not philosophy - not even Torah philosopy.

Finally arrived home B"H . My laptop arrived one day later Bechasdei Hashem.
I would like to thank very fondly the following : dd and cordnoy for their inquiring ,9494 for his chizuk , (powerless) Dov for his insightful and always incisive comments ,sonoftheking for protecting and defending our Holy Torah , Gibor120 for his healthy sense of humor, hashivalisesonyishecha for his valuable comments and last but not least gevura she bayesod for his mar'ei mekomos. I wanted to comment on many things many times but the connection to wifi was so bad that i could just quote Dov in something that caught my eyes and when i submited it, it was gone no wifi .
Sonoftheking my brother We are all here in this site surrounded by friends who love Torah and Its Mitzvos very much and have very high regard to Its teachings . That goes without saying. In fact our love for Hashem and His Tora is such that we got sick out of our minds until we reached the safe shores of GYE. Our actions (out) were very much in dis-accord with our love for Torah. But all of this great feelings and even deep knowledge of our Holy Books did not serve as a deterrent against our un-holy actions. Please correct me if i am wrong. So here came Bill and Bob and said, " you know what , if what you do and what you love do not match , let us explain you why is it that and how to make both match as close as possible " Could you find this formula in the Torah ? Most likely yes . But as Rav Yohanan said if i didnt clean the dirt out, you would have never found the pearl. It was a honor for this small thread to host in it all of the above chaverim . Whats most important , i came from my trip clean , with some wounds here and there , but they will heal . THANK YOU Y'All ! and Lots of Hatzlacha !