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or just click on the "speech bubble" under the "karma" that will send you straight to the PM page.

Dear lostjew, your pain is palpable!! It hurts!!

The question that I have to keep asking myself in every situation is "what can I change?" and when dealing with other people, the answer is almost always....NOTHING!!!

That leaves me with a very difficult decision to make, I can either cling onto my "right" of being treated as I expected (even if it's normal, it's still my expectation) and be miserable that I'm not being treated that way, and resent the person who's treating me differently.....

But there is another option, letting go!! Letting go of the expectation, accepting that this is something that I can't change and that Hashem obviously wants me to deal with. Being that I don't always know how to deal with it though, and sometimes my emotions get in the way, I have to ask others for help, and when dealing with something as sensitive as a spouse, I may even want to look for professional help.....not to fix her, but for me to learn how to be happy with what I cannot change!!

It's not easy, and it certainly needs support, so Keep on Posting, keep on learning, and with keeping clean....

KEEP ON TRUCKING!!!

Lostjew85 wrote:



If it's a trick it's never going to work.

A close SA friend of mine always says "she needs a soft place to fall".

She has a lot of hurt feelings and she needs to be able to let that out to a husband who is actually trying to make her feel comfortable enough to do that.

Yes, that is extremely hard, especially with all the other stuff going on. That's partly why therapy would be a good idea.

But I think the first step, and I cannot stress this enough, is to go and have a long talk with your Rav, Rebbe, mashgiach or possibly your chosson teacher.

I feel your pain. The one thing that is clear is that you and your wife need serious help. You can shlep along until it's unbearable (it sounds like it is already) or you can get help. I'm not sure what to tell you specifically, but one way or another, you need outside help.

You can only change yourself, not your wife. But, changing yourself will go a long way towards changing your wife (though that can't be your intention).

I really feel for you. You are in a very difficult situation.

Dear Dr. Watson. i want your advice... i made up with my wife, it took hours... bottom line here's the outcome. i'm not allowed to see a therapist until i'm divorced. that's what she says. we are going to try and communicate better... she wants me to work on the marriage on my own. she has some valid points about me but i don't know if i can change. i'm not considerate... she is correct! i'm selfish! but how can i tell her that i have a lust problem or other issues and only therapy will help if she says that quote " if you need to do that then do it on your own time and your own dime" so long we are married i forbid you to see someone. i think the biggest problem is that i'm not completely honest with her. but i don't see how that's going to change.

I am just letting this out there, I don't know you or your wife and certainly not about your relationship, but I wouldn't be surprised if you'd tell her that you have lust issues, and that you need outside help, that she would "allow" for you to go.

That would make sense because if you are going for "marriage counselling", that is a clear indicator of something not totally up to par with her, as the saying goes "it takes two to tango". So why should she want you to go and show that there might be something wrong with her?

But if you have a problem for yourself, which you need to take care of for yourself, and it doesn't have any implication on her, then she may very well "let" you go.

One thing that strikes me though is the fact that you need her "permission" to take care of yourself. If you had a heart condition, ch"v, would you ask her for "permission" and if she didn't let would you listen to her? That seems to imply that it indeed isn't about you yourself, but about you trying to change her to meet your "demands"....

I am also selfish, and need everything to go exactly as I planned in order for my selfishness to be satisfied. But since I know that about myself, and I have admitted it to my wife, I now can be open about it, and when I feel selfish I can admit to her that I'm acting selfishly (I don't always, but I am much more open with her, and she knows it even when I don't admit it).

I have to change me, I can't change anyone else. I need to learn how to deal with what I have, to make the most out what Hashem has given me, regardless of anyone else!!

You're on a good path, stick around, post away, you'll learn about yourself and life and slowly we'll grow together!!

Dear LJ:
I would like to express agreement with pidaini that the reason your wife is opposed to you seeking professional help, is because she's afraid that it will reflect as a negativity against herself.
This shows from what you quote her as saying "Do it on your own time, on your own dime" - What she means is "This is totally your problem and I refuse to allow you to do anything that will make ME part of it!


I would therefore suggest that, besides for explaining to her that this is not a "marital issue" but rather a personal lust issue, as Pidaini pointed out, You should also clearly express to her that you understand and VALIDATE her concerns, that she is worried that "it might not look good on her". [obviously you need to do this in an empathetic way, not it one which seems like her feelings are getting in your way].
I'm sure you've heard the all important fundamental rule when dealing with women's feelings: They need VALIDATION". You need to show her that you understand, empathize with, and validate her concerns. Only then will your explanations about this NOT reflecting negatively on her, and about her seeing that she has only to gain by "allowing" you to deal with this, be able to be accepted by her.
May Hashem guide you and lead you along the proper path, and may you have much success in progressing and ultimately achieving recovery.

I agree with the sentiments above. We're all here because we did plenty of things behind our wives' backs. Now you want to do something positive but your wife doesn't let.

I have met a few people in SA who's wives insisted they didn't go but they felt they needed to so they went anyway. One person said his wife threatened that if he went then when he came back all his stuff would be in bags on the street. He went anyway and did find bags on the street. They were empty. Slowly his wife got over it, as she saw the improvement in him and he's been sober for almost 2 years now.

I don't have the confidence to say you should do that. What I think is that you speak to your Rav, Rebbe, mashgiach or chosson teacher first.

Tell them everything. They might well surprise you with their insight.

Also, speak to Dov: guardyoureyes.com/forum/profile/userid-3208

Are you in SA? I guess if she doesn't want you to see a therapist she wouldn't want you to go to SA either, but perhaps you can join telephone conferences without telling her. Mind you, I didn't tell my wife I was going to live SA meetings until I had over a month of sobriety (since lost). Check out this page:
guardyoureyes.com/tools/calls

I think that working on the lust addiction is enough for now. We all have character defects and you can look at them again when you get to step 4, but right now I think joining the fellowship in whatever capacity you can would be a great start.

Also, have you read the Big Book or White Book?

Finally, it's vital that you are consistently patient with your wife. Making up once is great, but nothing's really changed. change takes time. If she needs to be able to let out her feeling without fear of retaliation of any sort, then you should be there for her. Listen to her patiently, apologise when needed and try to take aboard what she says, without criticising her in return. Once, twice, three times, however many she wants. slowly slowly she'll see the effort you're putting in and slowly she's trust you a little more and slowly the relationship will get better. I think there are likely to be some very difficult moments coming up. Bear with it and be there for her, and I daven for you that things will improve.

Also, buy her a box of chocolates or something nice and give it to her with a smile and some warm words of affection.

Dr.Watson wrote:


And if she throws it right back at you and says "I don't need your stupid chocolates!" [which probably won't happen, but you have to be ready, as they say "hope for the best but be ready for the worst"] - just lower your eyes and say "[---- (her name)], I understand that this is very difficult for you and I'm so sorry about it, but I'm really looking to make it better".

Do you know why your wife is so adamantly against therapy? Is it only the money?

How long have you been married? Has your marriage always been bad? Is it ever good?

Does your wife want to save the marriage? Why does she stay if she is so unhappy?

What have you done to contribute to her unhappiness? Was she always unhappy from day 1?

Just some questions that come to mind. I feel like the picture you are painting has some holes. Feel free to answer all, some, or none of them.

Hi Lost

do not give up !!!
you may be going through a low - BUT YOU WILL HAVE MANY HIGHS
We are all been/are there I did terrible/low things including being together with my wife as she cried saying "Do your business you dog!!" -That was low back then I also "felt no remorse" now I am begining to heal -it is a exciting, beautul process. You will make many friends and meet many people inc the "Real you" and "the real Hashem"

Again Do not give - If Hashem really thought there was no hope in you he would not have directed you to GYE .

There are solutions.

Hashem should guard you
charlie1

gibbor120 wrote:


This has been explained in the posts above.

Hi everyone, I haven't posted in a while. Just wanted to say thanks for the chizuk. I have been following the forums and the info is great. I also didn't need to post because things are going great for me. I have been celeb for more then 30 days now! It's not a great milestone for me beacause I have done this mane times in the past. However, this time I know you have my back and I hope to come back and post that I'm clean for 6 months the. A year and on. Thanks to all