Ditto to most of dms's post.

"Hitting rock bottom while still on top"

Just to explain that term a bit more:
I understand that to be an official gye variation of the aa concept that people are not ready to recover until they mamish hit rock bottom- עד ועד בכלל.
So the gye sages say אין ,הכי נמי, BUT , each individual decides when he hits HIS rock bottom. When he's disgusted enough with his behavior that he says עד כאן! I can't take it anymore!

Essentially, it's an attitude that gives each of us PERMISSION- at ANY time- to say ' I hate this, I'm ready to commit to do what it takes to change. '

Hope that's helpful.

dear tzud
i think dms is right about getting help from somewhere.
and so is kilo about finding out where this can lead you.
there are horror stories about people who get so caught up, that their lives are totally messed up.
but don't bash yourself, plead with Hashem to encourage you to reach out and get help.
and don't give up.

Ineedchizzuk: Its not a variation, i am pretty sure the phrase is an AA phrase, it just carries over to every addiction.

What all you guys are saying only makes it more confusing, that despite all the above i think that in the back of my mind im convincing myself i can live with it, and thats what is so hard about this struggle, that although i feel its ruining my life, when lust hits i tend to forget all that. especially after a couple days clean i lose that feeling that i cannot live with it.
Of course i KNOW its true, but i dont FEEL it, so my guard goes down, along with me...

just wondering, when you say that after a few days of being clean you can live with it, do you mean that at that point you have forgotten how it feels when you fall? and that is why you could live with it, or do you meant that you actually think about how it feels and decide in your mind that it is not a big deal to feel like that once in a while?
the difference is huge. if the answer is the first way you are basically tricking yourself. if the answer is the second, then why are you still hanging out here? Enjoy your life as it is.

I felt the same way for a while. It's a confusing feeling, because every time you fall, you're desperate to get out, but after a few days, when the lust hits, you feel like guilt is the worst thing you have to deal with at this point.
My personal experience hitting "rock bottom" was not the threat of divorce or losing my job. It was the feeling that my wife was not giving me my "needs" and that my marriage was lacking in some way. I realized that I just couldn't continue, because it was making me unhappy and a little depressed 24/7. I really came to this website to see if anyone else had this problem, not realizing that it would shock me into the realization that I was the problem. Since I wasn't really watching porn that often (mostly masturbating without porn), I had no idea how messed up and lust-addicted my brain was.
Once I realized that I actually wanted to stop, not because of the guilt or the mussar or the threat of what will happen in Olam Haba (although all valid deterrants), I was finally able to make a firm commitment to try to clean myself up.
Until I realized how much better being clean made me feel, I, like you, simply did not have a compelling enough reason to stay clean past that initial white-knuckle stage.
I have been clean for 10 days (one at a time, of course), one of the longest stretches I've been clean in about 15 years. We all hit rough patches, but that's what the support is here for. Try to internalize if you can, how much more enjoyable and "real" life can be if you give up constantly thinking about lust & women. It just kind of takes away from the whole experience of living if you're always in a fantasy land. Previously, even when I had patches of "clean" time, I was still lusting constatntly. Try to give that up and hopefully you will develop a drive to keep going.
This is what helped me so far. I hope it helps you as well.

tzudreiter,
I will keep this post simple.
You answered my post sayin' that after several days (after actin' out), you're fine where you are; I have said in the past that then it is difficult to change, for you are in a comfort zone.
But then you write that you feel like crap.

My humble suggestion: Take one action towards recovery that requires you to go out of your comfort zone, and what that is...is up to you...somethin' that you really don't wanna do, but would be beneficial.

Keep us posted either way.

b'hatzlachash

tzudreiter wrote:


tzudreiter.
i really hope that soon will come a breakthrough for you. even a small step, but something different like cordnoy says.
i hope you don't mind me saying something obvious.
people struggle the whole time with exactly the way you put it. what they KNOW and what they FEEL are two different things.
i don't think there is any easy way to get around this.
but what helped me, in this problem, is to get my FEELINGS aroused about my problem.
that is when i saw that i'm going round again and again, without making significant progress, i got suddenly the realization, that SOMETHING has got to change, and the only one who can start that change is me. but i had to be desperate enough to want that change. and i realised that if i won't change then....
we are looking forward to your next success.

I think this might help me out; instead of waiting until my powerlessness is proven to me, i remind myself of my powerlessness when i start feeling powerful, by asking myself: am i in control of my life? although sometimes it feels abit robotic. i guess that's the idea of the first step.

Another couple of falls...
I want to open up to someone, im just not sure to whom.
I have two people in mind, one my age, my chavrusah actually, who is very devoted and understanding, although he is my "Friend" i respect him. the other is a couple years older than me whom im close to as well.
Anyone have any advice.
Also, i am expecting there response to be (aside for shock) Sympathy, but then what? is my point only to scare them? what do i want from them? (which might also help me decide on the first question)
I think this will be a big step forward...

Someone whom you trust.
Someone who you will listen to their suggestions.
You will find solace and comfort in takin' this step.
Don't worry about what will be afterwards.

b'hatzlachah

I personally have not found telling people whom I feel I can't relate to to help.

Can I ask you, why don't you call up someone from the forum? A person who will be able to understand you, a person who you don't have to worry about calling when the urges hit because you know that they won't look down at you, a person who can open up to you in return (one of the biggest things by me).

You may want to start with chatting first, getting email addresses and making seeing who you feel more understood by, but I personally think that just getting the story out there, although helpful, is not a long term thing.

Keep on Trucking friend!!! Keep on Posting!!

first of all, thank you guys.
Second of all, to cordnoy although i respect them, i dont know how much they unserstand abot the nature of my problem. Basically, i dont know how much advice they will able to give me.
To pidaini i think the advantage of friends is that its more real, its people which know my backround and in general we speak the same language. In other words, its less "virtual".
Thanks again

perhaps pidaini is right for the future reachin' out, but regardin' openin' up...it can sometimes be worth it to open up to someone you respect...not for the advice, but for the listenin' ear.

safe decision

b'hatzlachah

Hi Tzud!!!!

i agree fully with pidaini(as usual), i too tried to talk to a friend of mine in the past but he wasn't in the same situation at all he helped me with chizuk and we even made some kabolos, but i still felt embarrassed every time i had a strong urge or a fall i felt uncomfortable in a sense, but since i joined gye i found many guys to chat with then spoke on the phone and even met up in real life, its a whole different experience dealing with people who really understand your struggles and really care,

so try getting to know some guys here and i'm sure you'll find guys that you can feel comfortable with,

KOTGW and KOMT!!!