Good point Cordnoy.
i am not interested in living with it,even more than i am not interested in living without it.
But it almost feels like an organ donation, (which i guess it really is...).

One gives an organ or doesn't when someone else's life is at stake.
Everyone will give an organ when it is their own life at stake!

b'hatzlachah

Cordnoy, that is one hell of a quote!!

It is the backbone of where I need to place my surrender, I'd love not to have the desires, it's having the desire that I don't want...because then I used to feel that I need to give in, and that feeling is still there, although much quieter.

Thank You!!

tzudreiter wrote:
This is the question that you must come to grips with. It IS scary. We don't want to let go of our security blanket.

We must learn new coping skills such as calling a friend. Then we must be brave enought to let go of "acting out", the one coping skill that is immediate, initially immensly rewarding, but then leaves us feeling guilty and worthless, and worst of all, wanting more.

Just let go! Just do it! I can see you standing at the edge of a cold pool afraid to jump in (sorry for this mashal during the 9 days). Just jump in and don't look back. You will never regret it. Face your fears... Or you could stand at the side of the pool forever wondering what it would be like to jump in. (I'll tell you, initially cold and shocking, but then forever rewarding)

Allow me to share my own mashal. The Gemara Kesubos 77b relates how R' Yehoshu ben Levi outsmarted the angel of death. He asked to be shown his place in Gan Eden, and without warning he quickly jumped over the fence and entered Gan Eden alive. Similarly, when we are faced with a nisayon, we have the opportunity to quickly jump into Gan Eden instead of allowing ourselves to slip into hell.

Hatzlacha!

MT

Thanks for the support guys, it really keeps me going.
but i dont get the comparison to jumping in a pool, where its a one time move, and its all over, so just do it...
in my case however there are times where i say "to hell with this stuff" as if i jumped, but then find myself right back where i started, on the edge of the pool needing to give it up again.
but one thing is certain, i cannot live (normally) with it.

Perhaps the jumpin' in the pool mashal is more for the commitment....don't think too much (there I go again) as to what you need and what you don't and what is the cause and what this means and what that means....JDI!. And yes, once you are on this wonderful road of recovery, there will be times that you gotta dust off and start again, but you are on the road and you are headin' in the right direction, so you might be tzudreit, but at least you are turnin' the right way.

Onward!

Right, right, right, right......

b'hatzlachah

By the way i really love your recently composed quote:
"Ask not: Am I ready to live without it; rather, ask: Am I ready to live with it?"
It really hits the spot, because that is where things become very clear: NO WAY IN ...

Yeah?? Nu? Finish the sentence. Don't leave us in suspense!

tzudreiter wrote:

that is a major step, the next one is to have that clear enough to give us the push to jump into the pool, which for myself and many others here the nimshal to that was the terrifying fear of opening up but after accomplishing it finding it to be immeasurably awarding

ineedchizuk wrote:

i don't think the moderator would allow it, so i'l leave it up to your imagination...

I'm spiraling downwards.
i was posting earlier that i feel like i cannot live with pornography, masturbation... (as Cordnoy put it...). but that feeling is usually right after a fall, lasting for sometime afterwards. but as time passes, this feeling seems to fade away, it becomes a calculation (a Lumdus...), not a conscious reality.
I guess i need to hit rock bottom before any long term changes will take place. i mean, i havn't really lost much because of my addiction, aside for losing the life i want to live, a personal thing, which i can deny to myself. but not like a job or a relationship about which there is no more denying. maybe i have to wait till then... if not i wont feel that being clean is something my life depends on.
I hope and believe i am wrong...

tzudreiter wrote:

Let me be abit more descriptive.
Yesterday Erev Tisha be'av, every one was was busy getting ready to mourn the destruction of the Beis Hamikdosh, to me the whole thing didn't exist, i was busy destroying myself!!!
I downloaded a couple pornographic videos (plus some moovies which turned out to be completely dumb). I barely davened maariv and said Eicha, went straight to bed and watched those videos, masturbated a couple times. obviously i was not really interested in getting up in the morning, so i didn't. when i did wake up i watched some more, masturbated again, and here i am feeling like crap...

i am confused. You say you are spiralling downwards and yet you haven't lost much and you could live without list, so you need to hit rock bottom before you can make any long term changes. Huh???? You are spiralling downwards!!!!!!!!! Isn't that enough of a reason to change? Have you ever heard of the term: hitting rock bottom while on top? That means that even if you don't feel like you are in the web of lust, that you're life depends on it and you're life just sucks, you still realize that your life has some of that and it could descelate and as you say "spiral downwards" to the depths of doom.

SO! I think you should change yourself because lust probably does control you in someway. And you can.

So i ask you: what can you do change? Have you spoken to a rebbi, therapist or a good friend? Even someone on GYE?

We cant make you change. Only you can make yourself change

tzudreiter wrote:


sorry to say, but you are probably not wrong. even if you decide to make changes they probably won't last if you don't feel like you have really reached rock bottom, cuz when the changes get to be too hard you will feel that since they are not really necessary they are not worth the effort.

so... should you just give up?

maybe

or maybe there are some things you can focus on that will help you to see how much you have to lose if you just wait for 'it to happen'
first of all think about what is more important 'living the life you want to live'
or a job or relationship. you already wrote why that doesn't help you but maybe if you would seriously be koveya to think about it it may hit home,
also as you say yourself you see the downward spiral. use your imagination (which most of us here have an overdose of or we wouldnt be so caught up in all of this imaginary shmutz in the first place) to picture where this will lead to or read stories in the big book and white book and on this site to see where this has led to and maybe that will help to give you the wakeup that you are looking for
hatzlacha