Day 10, a big fat hen

simchastorah wrote on 12 Nov 2024 06:17:

woops! Today is day 9 not 10.

Day 9, a ball of twine

Man I just wasted 2 hours watching videos on youtube instead of working. Now I'll be working late once again... How I hate the computer. I'm sure someone here is thinking, hey it's not the computer, it's you running away from your problems by watching videos. And you're right. But if I wasn't sitting at the computer I wouldn't be doing it either. 

Completely agree and I struggle with that mightily as well.

That being said having tools for procrastination ready can help when you do actually want to work...

I found that the StayFocusd browser extension to be a helpful tool in that sense. It has timers for site categories (for example I limit GYE to 25 minutes a day per that site and LinkedIn to 5 minutes a day). 

It also has a particular set of options for YouTube that allow for you to watch videos maybe for work or for music listening while not being sucked into to the homepage nonsense.

I also like that they make it very difficult to change the settings at will.

The downside is that I think they sell your anonymous aggregated browser data for macro trends and such...but I can't say I care that much about that sort of thing

Day 10 - back to fat hen
The StayFocusd extension is very helpful, it was working great till I disabled it . I guess I'll turn it back on, I was thinking about it today actually. It's so maddening to me that I know so clearly that procrastination leads to so many bad things, besides the the intrinsically negative nature of almost anything that I view on the internet, news site coming from a perspective of k'fira, meaningless videos, pritzus even when not of the "cut off my hand" variation. 

There are so many issues with the internet for me. The fact that I am just on autopilot when I'm on the computer. It's like my sechel is in the back seat, yelling out to me, stop stop stop, you're wasting precious time, you need to be working, you will not have time later for learning. Or "what are you doing, why are you allowing these ridiculous people to fill your head with their views, they are contrary to everything you hold dear, what are you doing?" And I just keep watching anyways, click, click, click, chuckle chuckle. And I say, ok this video is the last one. This is the absolute last freakin one. Oh you know what, this one is kind of a hemshech of the last one, so it doesn't really count. Oh and I didn't really get the full 'experience' from that last one so surely when I said last one it wasn't על דעת הכי. Or כלך לדרך זה that was so geshmak, I wouldn't have said I would stop if I had realized how geshmak it was going to be. It's really absurd. I view myself as a generally reasonable person, but when I'm sitting in front of the computer all reason just goes out the window. And it's so hard for me not to go on the computer. This morning I made up that I'm not going on to the computer till after morning seder. When I was sitting in my office learning before going to seder I had a real nisayon to go on the computer. I was feeling something like a craving to turn on the computer, check my email, check the news check GYE. I had an internal struggle, "maybe I was wrong to be so strict, I should probably check GYE in case someone messaged me, I don't want to be rude and not respond c'v" and while this struggle was going on the craving was נתעורר and I realized this is pure addiction and עזוב.

I even at one point found myself in the middle of getting the computer started, like a person who wakes up in the middle of  מודים, and I caught myself in time and turned off the computer before it got going. I feel so foolish for this whole thing. There is a כסיל who shares a serious part of my real estate with me and comes out whenever the subject of computer comes up. I would really like to part ways with this כסיל.

You know it! I'm jealous of how you can write like that. It's hard for me to get words out.

For myself I find that I can treat the StayFocusd app like I do my wife's phone. A firm committment not to shut it off. oops Out of time!

Day 11
Bh writing that post yesterday, as well as kavey's push to turn back on the Stayfocusd extension, was effective. I wasted less time and got my work done earlier, leaving time to learn at night. I hope to Hashem to do the same today. Especially as tonight is ליל טבילה I would much prefer to come to that מתוך learning than מתוך working

Royal fail. I have only worked for an hour since that last post. Why oh why.

simchastorah wrote on 14 Nov 2024 14:44:

And yet, you’re back here, posting for accountability!

Oysh. 
Although in many areas it’s proper and effective to work with small incremental steps, for me it was critical, and worked, to make drastic changes my computer and internet recreation patterns all at once. It’s almost impossible to stop the “just one more” urge to watch another clip or another click once you’re in it….

Not to belabour the point, but I’m going to bump my “Posture of Pornography” post here. 

https://guardyoureyes.com/forum/1-Break-Free/414745-Chaims-Oigen#414748

Day 12.

Thanks @chaimoigen for sharing your article. I very much relate to what you wrote there. You divided your article into two points and I agree with both of them. I have thought about the first point, and have always thought about it as being in a state of passivity in which you relinquish control and allow your רצון (in the negative sense) to just become בפועל immediately.

The second point also is one I have thought about. The way that I look at it is a form of fake חיות. True חיים is an experience of perpetual התחדשות like the לשון of מים חיים. A person has a deep need to be experiencing continual התחדשות. The healthy expression of that is through being productive, being מחדש in תורה, etc. The computer, and especially the internet, give an experience of חיים מזוייפים, a flow of התחדשות which is completely external and empty, but hits the התחדשות neurons (or whatever) and convinces you you're really living. But you never really live from that, and you need another video another video another video. While the internet is the strongest form of this fake חיים, I find that even the computer itself unconnected to the internet has this aspect to it. It's a dumb rock with zero חיות to it, but it gives the impression of being more alive than anything. It lights up, it responds, there's colors, וכו וכו. And using the computer itself sucks you in to this fake living. 

And the truth is כל הרע כולו is really a fake living, some sort of יניקה from a חיות דקדושה. But the internet / computer seems to me to be a זה לעומת זה of the עצם החיים, and ממילא brings to all sorts of bad things.

I really really wish I could put an absolute stop to browsing the internet as you put it. In fact not long ago I installed a very restrictive filter that made anything 'fun' to look at on inaccessible. And I was really overjoyed and felt so free, to be able to just learn without any שמץ of פנייה towards the computer. But I was unable to work as long as I had that filter. And for 2 weeks I did not work at all, and my bank account is still feeling it. So I had to get rid of the filter, and immediately I was back at it, looking at the news. Looking at the news again. Checking כך וכך. Going on youtube. Listening to a podcast. I am dying to make that change that you have made (bh you should continue on your good path כי היא דרך החיים וודאי). But I have not been successful with it short of a very strong filter which blocks it, and I don't think it's an option. What I tried then was techloq. I still want to try other strong options, but I'm nervous after that last experience.

Simchas Torah, please keep posting. Your intelligent thought-provoking insights really "wake us up" and make us think. I hope you realize that many people silently view forum posts from the sidelines. You are really making loads of guys think by sharing your analyzations. Continued hatzlocha. 

simchastorah wrote on 15 Nov 2024 07:49:

The GRA says exactly this. The zeh l'umas zeh of the infinite sweetness of Torah is devarim betailim. He doesn't explicitly mention the internet, but only because it wasn't around.

I have struggled so much with what you are describing. Days spent on nothing (in addition to the days spent on porn.)

Two suggestions. With Techloq you can add unlimited individual sites to your block list. You can then add someone (for free!) who will receive emails when you unblock a site. This has been extremely helpful for me. The specific sites that really endlessly draw me in are blocked and unblocking them would be embarrassing. The sites I need for worked are open. It takes some setup time, but it's been very helpful.

What is also working right now for me (and I only started this after getting a little bit out of the mud) is a tapshich saying I will work a certain amount of hours prior to any personal recreational internet use (defined in a way that works for me. E.g. yes personal email because it's very hard for me not to check that.) If I break that then I pay a small knas. Having clearly defined hours to accomplish has been helpful. Would I be better off with no recreational use. Yes, but that's tufasta meruba.

I also thought control in this area was impossible. But with a little trial and error, careful planning and tons of siyatta dishmaya it's doable.

Happy to schmooze more about these if you want more details.

chosemyshem wrote on 15 Nov 2024 18:57:

Day 13

I am assuming you mean the gra in mishlei 1, 23 (around, I checked before and might be off by 1 or 2).  I think you're right, it's a good fit with the gra. He doesn't talk explicitly about a sense of חיות, but he talks about a רוח, and it says in ספרים that the רוח is the עיקר חיות. Also he says this רוח is כמעיין הנובע which fits with what i was saying.

Regarding techloq, because of the nature of my work I need to use software which can't be integrated with techloq, and they therefor block use of the software and don't allow it to be unblocked.

The taphsic idea you mentioned may be a good one. I had success with it in the past for a while with the more terrible inyanim, but eventually it stopped helping. It could be that with the דברים בטלים issue, where the pull is not with that same תקיפות as the תאוות נשים that it could be more effective

simchastorah wrote on 16 Nov 2024 17:03:

Awkwardly, I heard the GRA but never saw it inside. So I assume you're right about the mareh makom.

That's a tough situation with the filter. I used siteblocking extensions to some effect, but they are too easy to duck around. They don't provide the self-imposed roadblock that a filter does.

This is essentially a productivity issue, but at least for me, it's inescapably tied together with acting out. If I hadn't gotten some traction in that I don't think this tapshich would've gotten anywhere. But the tapshich has been working well for a couple weeks, especially set up that it's not a total bar to the timewasting - I just first have to get what I need to get done.

Some people have had success with this by listening to stuff (music, podcasts, shuirim) as they work. It's engaging but doesn't swallow up your whole focus so you can also work. Maybe that's worth a shot?