Vodka and herring is my preference...if that answers your question

concernedjew21 wrote on 29 Apr 2021 13:36:


I have been thoroughly outvoted, and I humbly retract my position. I believe that it is important for me to do so publicly, so that I am not the "machshir" for what is perceived as a lax approach.

2 points:

1) I tell chasanim that the greatest prep for "niddah weeks" is the exercise in discipline that is accomplished during engagement. While this does not mean to "pretend you are married but resist anyhow," it does create a sense of positive purpose for interactions during engagement that are unavoidable (albeit excruciating) 
2) Although I retract my position, I would caution that this case is unique (as all cases are) - so it is critical that any advice is not generalized in an overly simplistic manner. This obviously holds true for all situations, but I am extremely close to HY613 so I am a bit protective that he receives the best advice : )

​Hopefully I was מקבל שכר על הפרישה...

IMG

Thank you to everyone for the outpouring of advice. I think that there were many valid points made as well as some confusion in regards to the exact challenges that we are facing, so I would like to clarify.

We have not touched. This started when one night I sat in the car with her for an extended period. At this point touching was not on the radar. We would just sit in the car and enjoy each other's company. Then I went for Shabbos to her house, and we sat the whole Friday night looking at each other's eyes, which was very new. Then, on Motzai Shabbos, she admitted to me that she has the urge to kiss, which I agreed to. We said that we weren't going to though. We did sit together very closely, and the conversation also took a turn to intimacy, which was my fault. Once she brought up kissing, it was very hard not to talk about the next step. Then on Tuesday after going out, we literally went to a random street, went to the back of the car, and got really close. It was getting intense, so I said that we have to go to her house to avoid touching. Even there we sat closely, because everyone was sleeping. Then we decided to make some more stringent Gedarim. We have to sit at least my arm's length apart. No sitting in the car. And we are going to limit how long I can stay for. I hope that these are enough. If we feel things are getting heated, we are going to go through the reasons mentioned above of why to not touch.

In general I really relate to CJ21's analysis. Talking about how much we want to touch has made it harder. I think more stringent Gedarim are needed. We both know that staying clean is the best way to go, but it's so hard. I don't think that she is more susceptible to falling as much even though nashim daatan kaalos, because her Taavah is much less, while mine is raging like crazy. She is usually the voice of reason, and she said that she will be upset if I try to kiss her (even though she brought it up and got us into this mess).

Any advice would be appreciated.

I am on Day 4 by the way. Taavah is growing though, so I'm going to need to be extra careful. 

As far as the Kiddush is concerned, I agree to the Holy Ish about the bourbon. Vodka is not for me. A good tequila is also welcome. In regards to herring, pepper-crusted and jalapeno is the way to go. Leave the Cholent for the meal. 

Also my Kallah asked me straight up if I've watched pornography. I told her that I had, and she was very understanding. She asked me if I still do, AND BARUCH HASHEM I WAS ABLE TO TELL HER NO!!! Thank you GYE!!

Wow it's great how in 'touch' you are with this whole thing, and how you made gedarim as needed. Impressive!
I remember when I used to go out with my kallah (now wife), we never had the issue of almost touching, but the conversations sometimes led in the wrong direction (and I'll admit that I got pretty aroused sometimes at the moment, and I think I even acted out later). It was also usually in the car when we would talk for a number of hours at night. 
Maybe there should be a new takanah that chosson and kallahs shouldn't talk in the car at night for more than a certain amount of time.

Hy613,
I apologize for the assumption that there has been an issue of negiah previously, and for causing some of the confusion. I am amazed at how much you were able withstand such a nisoiyon and how you are trying to institute gedarim to prevent issues in the future. 
Keep up the great work.
There is a nice book and audio called The Magic Touch which discusses this subject. www.simpletoremember.com/media/a/Gila_Manolson-The-Magic-Touch/

Ish MiGrodno wrote on 28 Apr 2021 21:01:

Thank you to the Holy Pest Ish MiGrodno for your invaluable feedback. You may be right that in a perfect world this is the correct list, but for fighting the Yetzer the order is determined by what works the most. For many of us, the actual Issur isn't enough to scare us off, but a twenty dollar K'nas will keep our hands away easily. 

For me, the pull to get close physically is a lot more than actual Taavah. I have a hard time connecting to my emotions and people in general. I also have OCD, and I have been obsessing a lot about my relationship with my Kallah (I am addressing this in therapy). As a result, the feelings of closeness and connectedness that I receive when we are inches away do a lot more for me than just satisfy my urges . The response back to this therefore is that any progress that we seemingly make in our relationship when we do this is false. It is without Hashem's blessing, and without Him, our relationship has nothing to be predicated on. We need the Shechinah to be with us, so for me reminding myself of this idea is the most powerful method to stop us from touching. 

Then I want to fight Taavah with Taavah. I want to enjoy the first time that we touch in a permitted manner. Therefore I don't want to do it now.

Then the next two reasons don't motivate me as much but they definitely help.

I am still clean. I am at 5 days. 

I'm no expert here so I won't give advice, I'm just a single guy trying to find his bashert (when you daven under the chuppah please put it a word for BHYY, Hashem knows who I am )
I'm just going to say you're amazing! I'm so happy you found your bashert. It really sounds like you two are on the same wavelength, the gedarim you both set are amazing.
You both should be zocheh to build a bayis nee'eman b'yisroel filled with simcha and kedusha!

I had a hard time over Shabbos. I was working in a group home so I was pretty lonely. The Taavah hit strong, and there was some inappropriate reading material over there which I read, but Baruch Hashem I'm still clean! Didn't even touch.

Great that youre still clean!

Just a tip for the future: don't beat yourself up about it but definitely try to steer clear of any inappropriate material because even if you stay clean now it might linger in your mind for a bit and potentially cause a future slip/fall so better to cut down on those opportunities.

Gut voch! 

Your amazing!
keep em coming!

I had a really rough anxiety and OCD trigger the other day, and I slipped up. Sigh. Starting again. Going to text my partner Aaalll every day for accountability. Will also try to be especially on guard when anxiety flares up. I really want these two weeks. It's tough to have to start over.

.

Hi fellas. I'm only one day clean. I keep on falling and falling and falling and falling. I keep on trying to get up, but it seems that a fall always follows. I'm hoping for the day that I go up and don't come back down. The Psychologist Ish MiGrodno and I scheduled a serious talk about this struggle. What I don't understand is why is it so hard. Why do I never keep to my convictions? I've decided to stop hundreds of times, yet it's never worked. What will be different about the time that I really do stop, and how do I get there?