mggsbms wrote on 01 Jan 2017 07:05:

Ok.
 justI askin'.

It should be with hatzlachah.

You know my number.

mggsbms wrote on 01 Jan 2017 07:05:

Welcome back. As Cords would say hope is a 4 letter word. What actions are you planning to take to ensure that your hopes become reality? If you keep doing what you've been doing, you'll keep getting what you've been getting.

I've been doing different things with varying results, I'm posting now for one purpose as mentioned above.

Watson wrote on 01 Jan 2017 10:14:

This is really anti-climatic for me, since this is my 1000th post, and I was planning to post something really good (whatever that is?), but I didn't want to let this pass, so here I am.

Watson, in principle, I agree with you. It makes sense, right? If I keep on banging myself on the head, I will keep on having a headache. 
But we have to ask ourselves, what ARE we getting?
Let's say that someone has been having seizures five times a week, and he starts a new medication that is slowly reducing it to less and less times, even though he may still have an occasional seizure, I think we would agree that the medication is working. 
Granted, after a long time of no further progress, he may want to explore if there is an additional option that can eliminate the seizures altogether, but sobriety is a progress, and not a goal - nain?

1000 is a 4 letterdigit wordnumber! 

Mazel Tov Kein Yirbu!!

Progressive victory over lust is the goal but someone who chronically slips isn't really doing that. It's very easy for me to say "I only masturbated this time" or whatever rationalize, but lust is lust is lust. I try to work a zero-lust program. I can't have "a little" of it.

If sobriety is the train then what is the destination.

As addicts we cant say "normality"

And since as addicts all we can really do is focus on now and today.

Being sober for today is as good a goal as any.

So is sobriety the way to getting permanently sober?

Can an addict ever state permanent sobriety?

So I would say its the process and the goal.

 

stillgoing wrote on 02 Jan 2017 21:34:

First of all, that was a fine post. Happy thousandth!

I think we may be in agreement here though. I agree with what you said. The only thing is that it can be easy to claim progress as a form of denial:

1) Are things really getting better, or am I just holding my breath a little longer than last time? I can use statistics to cover over the fact that nothing is fundamentally changing, the next fall is inevitable. It's just that the inevitable used to happen after 20 days and now it happens after 30 days. Is that enough?

2) After how long is it wise to question the results I'm getting? Is a small amount of progress after years of effort enough to justify the method in use? Granted there may have been some progress, but would alternatives yield much better results? 

Just the thought of getting real help can be terrifying. So sometimes people justify not getting real help by saying that if they just tried harder they could do it on their own. How do I know - I did exactly this. I suffered for years and years because I was too afraid to get help. I tracked my progress by counting days on a spreadsheet so I could check I was making progress. Sure, the gradient was barely above zero, but it was headed in the right direction. After a few years I could see how meaningless the graph really was, that nothing was really changing in any meaningful way. So I sought help and got into SA. I took my twisted thinking into SA with me too, and it's taken time for some of my thinking to adjust, oh so slowly. That's progress - me changing my mind about something! 

I would urge anyone who isn't getting the results they came here for to consider adding something new to their recovery. No-one has to suffer as long as I did.

I find this whole discussion somewhat intriguing, I haven't been on the forum for three months, there was no big concern as to where I am, I even mentioned in one of the above posts that I've been thrown some curve balls, I don't recall anyone reaching out to me with overly concern etc. All that is fine and I don't have any bad feelings towards anybody ch"v for that, its human nature, I just don't get why when somebody posts something about recovery, and I clearly stated what my motive was, all hell breaks loose.

That being said, it is presumptuous to say that "join SA and all will be fine", oh and the reason he is not is because he's afraid to do what needs to be done for recovery. Without going in to details I've spent many hours daily working on recovery and have have been in contact with real people face to face and over emails and phone conferences, we have been doing step work and more. I am not a believer in the fact that joining SA is the quick fix, there is a lot of hard work involved, changing thought patterns, and training one self to reach out to Hashem and other people, a lot of entrenched feelings and resentments have to be changed or uprooted, so it makes no sense to say just join SA and all will be fine. The proof is in the pudding, I know people that joined SA and are struggling, while making progress, and people not in SA who are struggling while making progress.

I never ever said you should join SA.

I suggested that some people should consider 'adding something new to their recovery'. What that new thing is depends on the individual.

My post was a general post about progress, I did not write it with you in mind. Sorry to have upset you.

mggsbms wrote on 02 Jan 2017 23:01:

May I be so bold as to suggest you forget about what's happening with other people and focus entirely on what's best for you and what would make you happy.

Watson wrote on 02 Jan 2017 23:32:

I have never said that the simple true fact is the reason I'm not joining SA.

Watson wrote on 01 Jan 2017 10:14:

It was this post that I was referring to.

OK. Can I ask what upsets you about that post?

Watson wrote on 02 Jan 2017 23:52:

Imagine for a moment someone in SA posting what I posted and then gets that comment "if you continue doing what your doing you'll get the same results" that's how I feel, It presumes that I've been just doin the same old stale sad thing of posting on anonymous forum from a couch in my mother's basement...when I clearly stated otherwise.