oslost - Don't have too much to add to all the great posts, although I think R76 is a great example.

R76 - I'm sure you posted this elsewhere and I have just not been following, but you are AMAZING. That kind of success would have sounded somewhat far fetched a while back from some of your earlier posts. Congrats - keep it up and enjoy the great feeling!

Oslost, Hows it going??? Life is good?

Ezra wrote:


Thank you very much. One of the things that has made my sexual sobriety much easier is that I take 4 capsules of licorice root extract per day. Doctors should be consulted for side effects. This site contains other medical suggestions
www.guardureyes.com/GUE/Tips/TipsMedical.asp
Also I am 37, not a young man.

In a way, laziness is a much greater temptation for me which I have almost accepted.

Thanks DMS, life is basically good. One week "sober" today.

Thats great! Are you just keeping sober though? (i.e. trying not to fall) or living life (growing, improving, working on yourself, taking concrete steps)

In any event, good work!! Keep it up!

I apologize for making this thread about me. I am in severe depression, and I hope I can keep my resolution at sexual sobriety.

In my spiritual life I have been torn between two forces: desire to sin and fear of punishment. I know that is very unethical but.

I understand this is not the Jewish approach, but some people are torn between the desire to sin and fear of punishment with concepts of right and wrong playing secondary role.

I thought about listing this under another topic, but I guess it fits in here too.

I feel like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.

What I mean by this is that when I'm acting out or in the process of starting to act out, I feel like an entirely different person. Opinions and views of the world that I have as Dr. Jekyll change when I'm Mr. Hyde.

For example, I'm, I guess, a ba'al tesuhva. I say I guess because I'm not really frum, but learn from frum folks, attend an orthodox synagogue, keep a kosher kitchen, etc. Anyway, Judaism has enhanced my life in many ways, and the Orthodox ideas about sex and gender relations are one of the things that drew me into this community, probably the main thing really.

But when I'm Mr. Hyde, none of that matters, and I'm not even sure I believe in Hashem, much less Orthodox Judaism, and I feel like I've made a big mistake and am just trying to control uncontrollable desires, and Orthodoxy is wrong about sex and the secular hedonists are right. And while I can kind of still see the consequences for acting out--distance between me and my wife, time away from my work and subsequent failure to some lifelong dreams, distance also from my child--none of these things seem like much of a big deal. And so I act out, and not uncommonly the moment after I've finished, I'm back to Dr. Jekyll and seeing things and feeling things from the other perspective.

So it sometimes feels like talking and writing or any other practice won't work because the guy putting all that into place is not the same guy who's acting out. The Mr. Hyde doesn't feel bound by the agreements made and conclusions drawn by Dr. Jekyll, who feels like a different person.

BTW, this afternoon has been tough, and I can feel Mr. Hyde knocking at the door wanting to take over.

Hey!! Look what I once wrote!! (this was a reply to someone else who also had the same feelings as you)

Pidaini wrote:


besides for it being quite a nice post, IMHO that is, it also goes to show that you're not that different than the rest of us!! We're all in the same boat!! So you can throw away all those complexions and feel like one of the rest of us, and you know why?

BECAUSE YOU ARE!!!!!

KOT brother!! KOMT!!!

and to reiterate what Pidaini has said (which I find I do often), the fact that you are craving sex, lust, porn, acting out.....that does not make you Mr. Hyde, for this is not a religious struggle....that is what Dov always yells talks about. this is not about God, Torah, hell or anything of the sort. This is about our life, and how we want it changed. When the good old lust comes knockin' on our door, that should not be viewed (at least by us) as the yetzer hara (which it probably is), but rather, as da guy tryin' to ruin our life, and that makes no difference what type of Jew you are, or what type of denomination you belong to.

So, Mr. Jekyll and MR. Jekyll, just keep on truckin', and stop thinkin' all those ugly thoughts...you aint no contradiction...you simply are in the same boat as da rest of us, and you are faced with the same stormy waves and pirates that try attackin' our ship. We raise the flag of surrender that we are powerless over this, move on to step 2 that we need that Higher Power above us to steer us in the right direction.

Swim on.....one knot at a time.

b'hatzlachah

Hi
I am following your posts with great interest.

I wrote to you recently that we should not be thinking in terms of "justification" but of health and recovery.

You wrote back to me that you realise this intellectually, but at the time of temptation, this is what convinces you to fall.

I must say that before coming on to this Forum, I spent many months reading the GYE chizuk e mails, especially "Daily Dose of Dov". They may seem repetitive, but this is what we need to INGRAIN the message - we are dealing with a disease, not a sin. This is a different way of thinking. It takes a long time to change our way of thinking. It needs to be a deep change. But once this has happened, it becomes impossible to talk about "self justification"

The same applies to anything we have to do to get better. Does a cancer patient not go for treatment because it is too far or to inconvenient? HE DOES WHATEVER HE HAS TO DO!! It does not matter where or when - he grasps at survival!!

I am not saying that you should just drop everything and run to SA meetings. In fact, without a change in mode of thinking, dropping everything will probably not help at all. But I do feel that is you start thinking of this as your only choice for survival, then you will find ways to find the help that you need. Try "daily dose of Dov"!!

Regarding the workplace, I am also having a hard time, although by the sounds of it your workplace is much worse than one. In fact, I have tried changing my branch for a better environment, I am careful how I travel, and still I get triggered. The reason is that my problem is not my workplace, or my travel route. My problem is ME. I am continuously looking for lust, even as I am fighting it. There is something wrong inside. I do not know fully what, but I know that it is from within. And I think that it has nothing to do with lust, but something deeper.

At the moment, when I have an impulse, I am trying to do something positive, turning to Hashem, just trying to talk to Him. May be this is what I am really looking for. I am also trying Steve's method (Steve is one of the heroes of GYE). If I see an attractive women, I try to think positive things about my wife. How kind, how committed to me, how innocent she is. How unsuspecting of me. This helps. Hashem gave me these lust impulses for a reason. I am trying to find a place for them.

I hope that this helped you. It certainly helped me

Thanks Imperfection and everyone. I'll sign up for daily dose and chizuk (even though I don't know what the word means. I could use a glossary for this site).

My addict side is very clever, and tries all sorts of tricks including distracting me with religious questions, self-justifications, telling me it's okay just to masturbate, even though I know that will lead to other things, telling me it's useless to abstain because eventually I'll just go back to my old ways etc. He's also enticing me with all kinds of new, creative ways to act out. as in But wait, you never tried this. . . . "

I'm trying to keep on the path, though I had some slips today. I'm approaching a major birthday and would like to have some real sobriety under my belt when I get there.

Chizuk = encouragement

There is a glossary of sorts on this site but I'm not sure it will help you with the words you're looking for https://guardyoureyes.com/forum/23-Just-Having-Fun/84252-GYE-GLOSSARY-OF-TERMS

Hatzlacha! (Success!)

Oslost wrote:


shivisi responds:
It is important to know that masturbation is itself a very grave sin even if it will not lead to anything else!

Oslost wrote:


shivisi responds:
This is a very common mistake It is very important to understand that even if G-d forbid you DO "go back to your old ways", That does not make your effort useless.
this is for 2 reasons. 1) Because every good deed done no matter how small is recorded and rewarded, regardless of whether it lasted for 1 minute 1 day 90 days or 900 days. so if you abstained from acting out even one time you have done a great deed which is very far from being worthless or useless.
2) if you were on the path of recovery, even if you fall you dont ever go back to ZERO, because you always take with you the experience and knowledge which you picked up on your previous trie(s). You learn what triggers you to act out so you know what to beware of, and you know what works to help you resist the urges. so Every trial and fall is a step forward toward eventual future sobriety.
Keep up the good work!
Stay positive!

It is true that masturbation is a sin.

But more importantly, it is a self destructive disease.

Lust is a spiritual and emotional cancer. Any cancer patient would be happy to know that his disease is improving, or even not worsening. But he will not be satisfied until the disease has been eradicated. And even then he will always be concerned about a recurrence.

The only doctor for Lust is Hashem. Forums, SA meetings are just tools to help us be honest with ourselves and learn to speak to Hashem.

You mentioned that you came to GYE for a specifically Jewish approach. The predominant approach on GYE is that lust should be thought of as a disease, not a sin. This is a very Jewish approach. Ultimately, sin is an illness. As Isiah puts it "He will repent and be cured". Hashem gives us the choice "Good and life, or death and evil". Choose LIFE!!!

I am now over 70 days clean, Boruch Hashem. My "turn around", however, was many months ago. This was when I realised that my central problem was not lust, but the way I was dealing with stress and difficulties in my life. Once I realised that I had to accept the situations that Hashem puts me in, and not expect immediate satisfaction, then I could begin to change. Initially I would still fall a lot, afterwards less, now Boruch Hashem at the moment I am not falling. But the main thing was not the falls, but my direction. My life is slowly transforming from seeking immediate perfect results, to learning to trust Hashem. Then lust loses its magic.

Thinking of you. Looking forward to hear about how you are changing!

cordnoy wrote:


I agree with this general approach to the struggle (even if I didn't agree it wouldn't make much difference cuz you and others who say like you have made much more progress than I have). But there is also some internal work that needs to be done... in a healthy way.

Gibbor has a link to Dr. Sorotzkin's site. He has some great articles there about lust addiction and also on perfectionism. He writes that perfectionists are more concerned about being conceived as perfect (external) than they are about actually working to become perfect (internalized).

What can end up happening is that we create an image for ourselves to the world (very frum, baal teshuva...) and we feel like we are really a different person inside.

This inconsistency is very hard to handle and can be painful (maybe what you refer to as jekyl and hyde). So we actually attempt to soothe this pain by acting out (cuz it does feel good... for a minute).

Bridging the gap between our insides and outsides is also part of the "healing" process. This means we have to be real with ourselves... talk to real people... get real help... whatever works.

This helps me but might not be for everyone. Definitely continue to take the great advice others have given here.

Hatzlacha