Hakolhevel wrote on 10 Feb 2023 05:44:

They say דור הולך ודור בה…
And what about you?!? Also retired??

שבת שלום!

I am respondin' to a good fellow.

Surrender.

I have written about this several/many times here, and we used to spend lots/some time on this topic on our calls. It's not simple at all. When people say: "I just surrender my lust to God and He takes it away," it sounds goofey to us. For those who truly live in the program, however, there is merit in this mindset and process. One is sayin' that I on my own cannot overcome these desires, I am powerless; admittin' and concedin' this point removes the fight/battle, and allows God to enter. Does He enter? Who knows? One who has a strong desire usually is not victorious over it. Yes, you will see distraction methods, flight methods, etc., but those are generally just a delay tactic (but good to use regardless). The surrender tactic has a calmin' affect on the person, which has potential of lastin' for quite some time - when used appropriately, and when not simply used as lip-service.

Surrender is not sayin' that God is now in control of my actions and takin' away bechirah. It is up to me to do or not to do, but it allows God a wide-open space to enter into me; under those circumstances, it is easier to reach for the right decision.

As I said, there's a lot to write about surrender, and I am not an expert on it at all, but know this: It has nothin' to do with the removal of bechirah.

Can everyone do it? Not right away. Is it integral for the SA program, or the 12 steps? Maybe yes, maybe not.

Godspeed to all

Regardin' youtube, there is a lot of good there and a lot of bad there. There are some blockers around for some of it. Can it be as triggerin' as porn? Yes. Can it be used as a time-waster (and eventually lead to real bad stuff)? Yes. Can you find shiurim and music there? Yes.



It may be compared to Great Adventure on Chol haMoed, or perhaps a Gateways Conference. There is a shmorgasbord of stuff that can be tried.

cordnoy wrote on 14 May 2023 23:00:

Ever since encountering this concept, I've been perplexed by the meaning of "surrender". I've done a bit of thinking, researching and experimenting and still cannot profess to having a sound understanding of the true definition and intention of "surrender" in the mind of the author of the 12 steps.

What I have reached is a (my) version of understanding of the concept, although not really a definition per se.

The way I understand it is that when faced with an emotional challenge, be it lust, anger, frustration etc. I have two choices of how to respond.

One way is fighting back, meaning expressing my feeling of anger and resentment in a way I believe can "remedy" the situation, or plain and simple acceptance of the situation.

For example, if someone angers me, I can either respond to my emotions by punching the culprit squarely in the face, or by accepting that the instigator is merely a nuisance that's not worth my energy (not because I'm scared to slug him) - and just moving on with my day. Both are legitimate responses to my emotion, and assuage the feeling properly - the latter way not being me overlooking and ignoring my pain, but a different response, definitely more mellow, but a proper response nonetheless.

This method of acceptance is my understanding of surrendering. When faced with an intense desire to ogle a woman in the street for example, I can either have a screaming match in my head saying "Don't look! Don't look! Don't look!" - "But I want to" - "You'll regret it! etc." and suffer through the pain and fatigue of the battle which may lead to a defeat. Or I can accept the fact that I crave a quick glance, yet calmly move on with my day - accepting the desire, yet not responding to it - i.e. surrendering the battle, meaning not fighting back.

I am curious if this may be the (or part of the) underlying psychology behind the concept of "Surrendering to G-d".

Grant, it is part of it, but not the crux at all.

cordnoy wrote on 15 May 2016 17:32:

There were good discussions regardin' surrenderin' in the days of yore; here's one.

cordnoy wrote on 15 May 2016 17:31:

And this one as well. Many more can be found with a simple search.

I've always thought of surrender as something exclusive to twelve steppers, but is that right? Or is surrendering something that can be practised on its own, not as part of the 12 steps program? Also, is there a clear definition of who benefits from this attitude and who doesn't (or would it be beneficial, in its proper form and fashion, to all levels of the struggle)? 

iwillmanage wrote on 15 May 2023 21:00:

On the simplistic level, it can be practiced by all - as in the non-fightin' mode, but at its core, it is a method geared for program folk - especially those with addictions.

And here I thought that GYE would be a safe-haven from the woke DEI movement; how wrong I was.

cordnoy wrote on 16 May 2023 18:06:

Well you made me curious. Quite the excitement 

Pointing out that you're at 613 Karma!

cordnoy wrote on 23 Jun 2013 09:41:

I'm not gonna make a big deal outta this, especially because I don't even know what the significance is (except that I'm old n' tired and I still didn't kick this habit - referrin' to the pent-up sexual desire one, not the GYE one), but completin' ten years on this site certainly is somethin'! This will not be a post of what I gained and who I gained it from, it will not be a post regardin' all the steps I've taken and those that I skipped over. I won't mention the word cheerleader or chizzuk or steps or meetin's or mussar or which I prefer. Am I personally in a better space? Yes I am, and I thank GYE, the platform, the admins, the guys (and the gals - one of the perks of bein' a mod). Do I still have ways to go? Hell yes! Am I doin' what I should be to get there? Hell no! Have I ruffled people's feathers with my postin's or my dissin' or when I don't post? Yes, and I am sorry for that. Lately, I have had a bunch of email/texts from guys that they appreciate my brutal honesty and direct approach. My pleasure, and at the same time it has drawbacks, and I do apologize for that. Am I responsible for bannin' some folks from the site or from the chats (which lately, takes a substantial investment of time to read on a daily basis) and then dealin' with the backlash and takin' the flak? Yes. All that is part of life.

What is my partin' message for this post?

After a week or two or three on this site for whatever your issue/challenge may be, decide to speak to someone, and it should be someone where it's slightly uncomfortable (and not be your spouse/partner), and someone real - like with a body and a name, and preferably face-to-face.

And one other thin': Regardless of your particular fetish or fantasy, regardless of your particular behaviors and no matter the extent, do not fall for the trap that you are unique because of it. Can trauma play a role? Yes it could. Can your specific upbringin' bring about certain particular fantasies, habits and actions? Yes. Do some folk engage in calls, some in pics, masturbation, many in porn, some in massage parlors, strip clubs or prostitutes? Yes. Generally, that is a sign of your risk-aversion level or your opportunity options; it does not mean necessarily that you are further along in this addiction or bad habit than the other. If someone thinks about sex all day, but does not masturbate, he may be more addicted than the fellow who visits an escort every three months. If one undresses every fellow in Shul on either side of the mechitzah no matter the time, he may be more addicted that the fellow who cheats on his wife with the secretary. I am not bein' defensive, for I fall into all those categories. 

What else is there to say? Just one word...... Godspeed!

cordnoy wrote on 22 Jun 2023 16:06:

I have a lot to learn from you, Cords. 
But I wanted to say that you drove this message home for me. And because of you, I took the plunge and did it, and It changed my life.
I owe you big.
If you are reading this and have not done so yet, please stop overthinking it, grit your teeth, and just do it. I am sure you will be glad you did.

Godspeed !

There were several posts in my history where I list all the fellows from Gye that I have met in person. I cannot find it though. Regardless, I can now put another two notches on my lipstick case. Exhilaratin' to meet comrades in the flesh.

Godspeed