B"H I had the opportunity to tell some of my story over again to another member and re-enforce the knowledge that I am powerless over my addiction. I cannot stop myself from acting out any more than a man in quicksand can pull himself out. In fact the more I fight it the quicker I sink. My job is simply to stop fighting and call for help.

Dr.Watson wrote:


As we read in the haftora of shuva Yisroel "Ki yeshorim darchei Hashem, vetzaddikim yelchu vom uposhim yikoshlu vom". The road might be straight but I can easily trip over it without Hashem's help.



I felt a little distance between myself and the rbsh"o today and I found myself getting a bit frustrated. Things didn't go exactly as I wanted, and I was worried that I done damage instead of good. I spoke to a friend and he said "did you do the first or third step prayer today?" I said no. He said "Oh, well then what I was going to say won't work exactly (loved the assumption that I had though ) but yeah, if you are powerless and you want to turn yourself over to G-d instead then you realise that you don't have the power to make things turn out either good or bad."

Now I feel guilty that I didn't daven beforehand, but it's a step up from feeling guilty for messing up.

I saw these and just had to share them:

Stop making fun of me!!! :mad:

Wow, so much to write about yom tov I'll start with just one thing.

I was holding one of the poles holding up the 'chuppah' for kol haneorim and I was trying my best to hold it straight. A couple of times though someone else pointed to me to move it a bit further back. From where I was I couldn't see that it was crooked, I was too close to it. It took someone with a little distance to see that I was holding it crooked.

The lesson is that sometimes it takes someone else to show me that I'm crooked. I can't see it in myself.

So here's the thing.

I just relapsed. It's been months since I've seen any form of pornography and I was desperate. It's been a couple of days and tonight I gave in. Not right away of course, first my addiction convinced me I should just browse a bit, after all I have a strong filter. In the end I found a clip that could barely even be called porn and relapsed.

A lot of thoughts went through my mind right after but I think that in truth I don't mind the falling so much. It's about progress not perfection and b"H I'm making progress. So I'm not there yet, nu nu.

No, what bothers me is that I know the 12 step program works. I've seen it in others and I've experienced it work a little in me too. I simply cannot compare the periods of abstinence I had before to the periods of sobriety I've had since.

I want to be able to help others experience the same sobriety and much much more and to do that I need to be able to convince people that it's good. But how can I do that when I've never even got to 90 days?

That's what bothers me when I fall.

It's not how I feel about the fall itself but my pride. Who's gonna listen to me now I've relapsed yet again?! I wouldn't.

I think this attitude has been affecting me more and more recently. It happens at meetings and you can see it in my posts. Gone is the honesty, the vulnerability, replaced by a self-styled 'teacher' to the confused. Well it's really me who's confused.

And I think that pride is getting in my way. Heck, maybe it's the only thing that's getting in my way.

When someone messages me about what they get from this thread my head swells up. See John, there's someone who I can help. Even if I never make it myself maybe I can 'succeed' through him.

And when I post, why do I then check to see how many people liked it? If I write a post to one person all I should care about is whether it helps that one person, who cares how many other people liked it. And I'm powerless cos I'm gonna check this post too, I know I will.

I don't know what I'm going to do next but I'm not sure I'm capable of using this forum in the good spirit in which it was intended. If it's become a vehicle for my pride then I think I need to surrender it entirely, or maybe just my profile.

Ridiculous!
We all have ego; we all have pride (well, most of us I guess; for sure I do).
Write with honesty; you're good at that.
I am goin' thru a touchy time, and I write that.
Am I still 'sober'? Yes, but there are times when i'm not strong.
And, there are plenty who will remain nameless, who have also struggled, but it stays more in emails or chats, and nevertheless, they provide chizuk for the oilam.
It's fine.
I wouldn't suggest masqueradin' as someone you're not, but words from the heart, and especially yours, are good ones, and we certainly don't wanna miss that.

Doc (that was your name); stick around; keep pluggin'; keep 12 steppin', and keep postin'.

thanks

b'hatzlachah

Mr John Watson excuse my ignorance but why do you name yourself John from the previous Doctor . i am just trying to understand .

With regard to what you wrote i have seen some posting something like they are "asirim"in "beis ha asirim " and the asir can not set himself free without his friend's help. So disregarding your status in the way going up . Your experience , advise and knowledge could help and even save many who read your posts.
Secondly as you for sure know when you help somebody you are also doing yourself favor because your words that are spoken with honesty influence you yoursef and you can derive Chizuk from them . Needless to say that isnt helping others one of the 12 steps ?
with regard to the other thing you said (about checking ), i think you are a very rare specimen of honesty and truth embodied in one person. You deserve all of our admiration and much more.
More over even with regard to learning Torah it is better to do "shelo-lishma" as long as you are learning . Something as vital for members of these forums as posting, can be done , in my humble opinion , shelo lishma .
So i dont see any reason why after your "relapse" you will devoid all the oilam from your extremely important words of wisdom . May Hashem enlighten your eyes , and ours, to see what is the עיקר and what is טפל. And reach the point that our eyes are guarded for His Sake.

I relate to your post very very much, though I'm on the other side of the fence on the 12-Step thing.

I've never been to an SA meeting, and don't plan on ever going. I share what works for me and have heralded on the forum that not everyone needs SA. I frequently chat with guys, speak with them on the phone, and a lot of them appreciate it.

When I have fallen, I was very nervous posting about it. How will people respond? Will they tell me, "See? You can't do it without the 12-steps!"? Will they ever be able to accept what I have to say again?

In reality, all I have ever received any time I shared that I fell was encouragement . If anything, people expressed admiration that I was open about it. Some were even relieved that I'm human.

During one of my falls, a guy was chatting with me, asking for guidance. I felt like such a hypocrite. At one point, I came clean with him and told him that I was dealing with my own stuff. He was extremely supportive. I told him that I had been nervous that he wouldn't be able to take me seriously again. He responded that he knew I was an addict, so it wasn't exactly a shocker that I should have issues at times, too.

Bottom line is that we need to know what works for us. When we follow what works for us, it works. When we say, "whatever, it's not so bad," we're no longer working it. It's a reflection on us, not on whatever program we're not doing at that point.

Yasher koach on being open and honest! May you continue progressing and go from strength to strength!

Mr (Dr) Watson I can fully relate to that post of yours.

But I think Cordnoy and Skep really shed some light on the topic. Remember its not all about falling or not falling its about staying in the game and trying over and over if we need to.

So KOP big time and KOMT!!!

How are you doing, doc? (You'll always be Doctor Watson to me.)

eh eh watsup doc?
I just noticed the last few posts. been away a bit.
I just want to tell you that if you never fell you would be less useful here than if you fall. The oilam always writes that the only way to help others is by sharing your experience. the more you succeed in getting back up the more you can keep helping others.
In fact sometimes I wonder the exact opposite. How can I really give anybody advice if I am not suffering as much as they are.

And as far as the gayva issue, I once tayned that in a sense we are being metaken the kilkul of not being mashpia and being a taker, so by helping others we are using lust to mashpia which is a tikun for lusting. Therefore, it is okay to want to know and enjoy being mashpia on others.

So I am sure the oilam would agree to me in my appeal to change your name back to doc. (If you want you cna keep the john there - Dr. John Watson as a zecher to the hard times)

Ditto on the appeal. Please, doc, pleeeeease? (Although your post had real depth; the feeling of letting others down is understandable.)

I will only share from personal experience reading through hundreds of threads.

Two things that I've read over the past six months have had a profound influence on me.

One was going through Skeps' original thread from which Skeps' Tips, which I've read before, was compiled. Now reading his original thread, I notice that right in the middle of the tips is a post where he shares that he fell. After reading that, the tips took on so much more meaning to me! First, admitting the fall, and then....to keep on posting advice!!! Wow!! So real!!

Here's the next one: Your spreadsheet, doc. Deep inside me, it's so humiliating to admit the fall, that I feel like I should never look back. Start a clean slate, never look at your past. Too shameful (which of course, puts so much more pressure on me, which is a trigger for me to fall again). So seeing you post the days clean, and the days not clean, apparently taking pleasure in looking back at the clean days even when followed by a fall, has been a real inspiration, forced me to see things differently. (So is that why you removed the spreadsheet lately, because of it being a Google 'doc'? :-) )

I guess essentially I'm expressing similar sentiments to the others above. That BECAUSE we feel your chizuk and advice is genuine, when then making yourself vulnerable by sharing your struggles too, it makes us appreciate the realness your posts even more.

So thanks, Skep!
Thanks, Doc!!

Agreed, man!

John Watson wrote:


That post was like a month ago, chaver. It was a great post, thank you.

Some points I liked and related to were:

1- Teaching can ruin me by waking up my ego. It seems that's why the step describing passing the message is at the end of the steps, not near their beginning. Sure we can bring people to the message before we finish the steps...but bringing the message to the people is a danger or us till a certain amt of stability is had. I didn't sponsor anyone till i was sober about two years...I also did not carry change in my pocket or walk into libraries or bookstores till about 2.5 years sober. For when I act out I use phone sex and peruse dirty books a lot.

People may not realize it here, but I avoid giving advice or inspiration here as much as possible, and opt for sharing direct experience and impressions. I never wrote that 12 steps are the way anyone must recover and never tell anyone they are an addict. Playing G-d is just too dangerous for my sobriety...otherwise for sure I'd do it. It's just the truth so it's ok to say.

When Guard told me he wanted to put my posts in the chizzuk emails as "Daily Doses" and asked me to help him do that, I declined. If I started to choose what i thought The Oilem 'needed to hear', I knew it would ruin me pretty quick. So I have never gotten or seen the Chizzuk emails except when people send him complaints about them (and sometimes compliments or questions) and Guard forks them over to me for a response. Thank-G-d I let that one go early on, or I'd have quickly been trashed by my own ego. So I know what you mean.

A guy I know asked me if he should moderate a yiddish call for GYE a few years ago and I told him it could destroy his recovery if he let it go to his head. Less than a year later he was in tzoress...and I love that guy, so it hurt a lot.

It's usually the newer guy with less than 30 days sober who give free advice in an SA meeting. The old-timers seem to share and get current rather than give pep-talks, quote the book looking for head-bobbing, or give a lesson to their meeting in 'how to really do this'. We have probably all been there, and sometimes we all revert to it when we are needy. Nu...that's what sponsors and friends are for: holding up a mirror to us. Best kind of love there is, sometimes.

So we end with the Vision for You" thing where they tell us "obviously we cannot pass on what we have not got" or something like that, and it asks us to just take it easy and be patient with ourselves. Boy, that's tough. Especially when guy is bucking for a promotion to the 90-day club, the old-timers club, being liked by 'the meeting', etc. I remember how I felt for the first five years o so that my shares in the meeting sounded stupid - and i often still do! It's my ego, childish, silly. I'm just another decent guy on this bus, and that's fine....most days.

Thanks for the PM, too.

Seeya doc!