I think it's very normal to think what-if scenarios, and I don't think it's anything to really worry about.

Looking at others externally, it may seem that they'd be better for you, for whatever reason. People may be looking at you and your wife in the same fashion, thinking you have the perfect marriage.

Who is rich? One who is happy with what he has. Remind yourself that Hashem has given you exactly the spouse that you need. Try not to look elsewhere. It really is a pointless and frustrating exercise.

Dreams are just dreams, silly imaginations running wild. Don't dwell on them whatsoever. Just take it for what it is and move on.

I think being married makes it much harder to stay sober in a way. Before I got married I saw good-looking girls and just wanted to have pleasure from them, that's all. Now when I see a good-looking girl I start thinking "look at her she's much better than my wife, I want to marry her instead, I made a big mistake, well maybe if I imagine being with her for a while that will in some way help. Hhhmmm that seemed good maybe she is better. Oh wait stupid, she's 17 so it was never on the cards that I would marry her, what is your problem?! Ok but now my wife can't measure up to the fantasy so how will I ever be happy? Why did Hashem do this to me? It's up to me to take the pleasure I was so unfairly not given. Look at that guy with the beautiful wife, he's so lucky, why does he get her when I get........."

Argh it's so frustrating!! It's such a stupid line of thought, why do I keep going through it?

Reality is hard, I get that. I just don't get why.

Thanks skeptical, I only saw your post after my last one. You're right of course, I just struggle with it.

The grass is always greener on the other side.

(Unless it's winter - then it's whiter and smoother.)

and Doc, I know we are on guard your eyes, and that's for a good reason, but perhaps we (and I mean this for myself as well), we should go back to more basic mussar, as Skeptical was saying: We have what is perfect for us; let's look at all the positives. Yes, there might be negatives as well, but lets work on them. Now, obviously I don't know your complete situation, and I don't know how the balance sheet at the end will conclude; I do know by me the positives of my wife will by far outweigh any negatives, and yet, it is the negatives that are many times at the forefront. And then we get into out other problem. Let us spend some time on the first step; perhaps it is even our core issue; who knows?

Aleih v'hatzlach!!

I agree with skeptical, "what if" situations are normal. I can't tell you if these particular "what-ifs" are normal, but as the saying goes "normal is the setting on a washing machine". I personally don't think that way, I leave my marriage out of it and just think about being with the women, because as you said I wouldn't want to marry them either.

Who cares what is normal, I'm not going to miraculously change if I realize "Hey, I'm crazy". So the punch line is, once again, acceptance.

Wishing that I wouldn't think these "what-ifs" is as much a fantasy as the "what-ifs" themselves (I know you know that, just repeating it for fun).

While the "what-if"s may be normal, at least for me, they are the greatest poison to my sobriety. To me they are more dangerous than seeing porn. I can see a girl in non-tznius attire and shake that off a lot easier than if the what-ifs start to invade.

Doc, it is not that you are not normal that it happens, but you are treading in shark infested waters when you indulge in those trains of thought.

Pirkei Avos was already quoted here, so see my signature for a more contemporary authority on the matter.

Eli

I was thinking about how I could get my wife to do things in the house that I'd like her to do. Selfish, I know. Then I remembered the book I have "how to win friends and influence people" and I thought OK, instead of criticising her for things she doesn't do, let's try thanking her for things she does do.

I thought I had a good balance of thanking her for some things and asking for others, but when I thanked her for the first thing she said "why, what have I done wrong?" Boy that stung!

After a while I thanked her for something else and she said "what's got into you today, have you been reading something?" Ouch!

But you know what, she actually did everything I wanted her to do, and I didn't even ask her. And she's in a good mood! Thinking about it it's unbelievable.

Dr.Watson wrote:


Dear Doc,

To answer your questions from the perspective of a guy that has been 40 and 50 (once upon a time): Yes, a 40 or 50 year old gets this way about girls your wife's age. No, it never ends. Yes, if left unchecked is can be every man's desire to be with much younger girls. Yes, it makes life hard.

BUT - there's good news. While we may never be normal again (as far as our allergy goes), we can learn to keep it in check. We can come to the realization that lust is no good for us, whether we lust about our wife, about someone else's wife, other girls, other boys, or ourselves - lust is lust, and when you feel that feeling you need to take it as a reminder to stay away from all shapes and forms of lust. Yes, it's hard to change so drastically, but B"H practice makes perfect progress. After a while, we can start feeling the real pleasure of cleanliness and serenity. And we can start realizing that the crazy life of fake pleasures is not really worth it and does not compare.

But as they say, "Nature abhors a vacuum". So we need to find other (kosher) activities and pleasures to replace our previous craziness. IMHO the best such thing for a Jew is a life of Torah and Dveikus BaHashem. It's gevaldig, especially when practiced in a state of cleanliness and purity.

Why not give it a try?

Hatzlacha

MT

Dr Watson you are completely normal.

The fact that one's wife may be attractive doesn't stop our fantasies. The fantasies can be about anyone. even our own friend's wife or younger aged girls.

The addiction is one that can be manifested in many different ways. Some people have a lust for men, some even for animals.

Does it ever stop? NO. Not unless we work on it. And even if we work on it, it doesn't stop it is just 'shelved' as long as we keep up the work.

This is a life long mission. But let's be thankful that we have been chosen for this mission.

Hashem wants us close to Him and so we need to constantly be reminded that we need to think of Him always and work on focusing on being givers rather than a takers.

We all have a gift and may we be blessed to realise that we have this gift each and every day.

Thanks to all those on this forum that give chizuk to each other.What tremendous reward we will all get from this!

Stay Pure,
Daniel

I'm tired, bored, anxious and alone with a computer. Not a good combination. I've got so much work to do, I'm just too tired to do it right now.

Ok it's now 2:30, I will get a coffee and listen to torahanytime.com and start my work by 3:15.

you know my number chap

and mine too!!!


and I heard that Hashem has a toll free line

He does, but the line is only open to honesty, not kedusha, not good intentions...just honesty.

If I had kedusha I wouldn't need to speak to Hashem at all.

As Duvid Chaim said: "Why am I in control of every aspect of my life apart from this one are that I need to turn to G-d? Cos If I didn't need to rely on G-d for this, I would think I was G-d"