|
26 Dec 2019 22:53
|
|
Iampowerless
|
Hi chevrah here is a little update on my journey
I'm continuing to go to live SA meetings almost every day and switched sponsors today to a brand new sponsor who is single like me and just yesterday celebrated 4 years of sobriety.
the honest truth is i am totally lost and not understanding how exactly this program will keep me sober for so long, but as my sponsor told me it's not your job to try to understand everything nor is it your job to worry how to remain sober. My only job is to reach out to people, pray to god, and take directions from my sponsor and do as I'm told so I'm trying very hard to listen, share and connect with people without trying to control my program I'm learning to completely let go control and trust the program something I'm really awful at. But if the program gave my single sponsor 4+ years of sobriety and countless others in the room 5-20 years of sobriety maybe theres something here............
 Love you all yankel
 Your sick addicted friend
|
|
26 Dec 2019 06:36
|
|
rolemodel
|
I went 26 days straight 9 months ago. It was the first time I used this site and my longest streak ever. Then i messed up and had a fall and it wasnt supposed to happen. The problem was that after not releasing anything, you become sensitive to anything and even the smallest thought can make you go crazy.
I kept pushing off restarting this program. And i still havent decided to start it again now. I remember how hard it was. But i have fallen way too many times in the past week and its out of control. I dont have a plan like i had last time. Im attempting a one-day challenge right now and im not thinking about later, mostly because i know Im gonna fail. But one day is manageable.
And me going to the site now is completely random, the idea just popped into my mind, and i just went to the website, but its not like I have so much remorse. Im just so addicted that I do not even feel that guilty.
|
|
23 Dec 2019 00:13
|
|
360gye
|
It is wise to try to get this under control prior to dating and including someone else in this struggle. However, even that (i believe) is somewhat dependent on age. You are right that the exact threshold to know when exactly you are confident in control over the addiction is hard to know, and i think it is different for every person depending on their own addiction and level of addiction.
I wish you much Haztlacha, and stay connected.
Like i said before, if you want to talk privately, i am more than happy to do so
Your friend,
360gye
|
|
22 Dec 2019 23:23
|
|
All 4 Hashem
|
Thank you. Rabbi Yaakov (i forgot his last name) posted an article on this site saying this to a guy who cant stop staring at girls tho bh he doesnt watch porn or masturbate. Rabbi Twersky said one should make sure this problem is under control before pulling someone else in (ie dating). Furthermore i talked with someone here who pretty much confirmed im a full blown addict and shouldnt date for that reason. However, the threshold of how to tell when ur ready to date is something i still dont know. My theory is 3 sets of 14 days sonat least when married i can hold off while shes a nidda.
chag sameach
|
|
22 Dec 2019 19:44
|
|
DavidT
|
Here are 2 top recovery points that I heard today for someone that's clean for over a year...
#1 hitting rock bottom - finally taking real responsibility - enough with the excuses and rationalizations
#2 having a support system in place - gye chaver - phone calls, texting, posting etc. connetion is the opposite of addiction. also really helps when the going gets rough...
|
|
22 Dec 2019 16:15
|
|
DavidT
|
All 4 Hashem wrote on 22 Dec 2019 04:58:
As I battle taava, it kinda paints a very bad picture of woman and looks. It makes me detest it and leads me vulnerable to.condescending on woman. Tho Yosef Hatzadik was the pinnacle of both beauty and battling taava, so they cant be a steira. How might I avoid this problem without succumbing to it?
all best, may Hashem grant you all success.
This was written on Thursday, 19 January 2012 here on GYE ...
https://guardyoureyes.com/articles/tips-suggestions/item/a-two-inch-waterfallA Two Inch Waterfall Imagine if you live near Victoria Falls in Africa, would you be interested in looking at a two inch high waterfall? It would not be hard to look away from that. The physical beauty of woman is just a two inch waterfall compared to the beauty of the soul. Why would we want to focus on this insignificant thing and miss the true beauty instead? Perhaps this is what Lust addiction is after all, just a fantasy that some insignificant thing will make us happy, when of course it can't, because we are missing the true beauty and the things that will really make us happy.
|
|
11 Dec 2019 15:30
|
|
DavidT
|
Tzvi5 wrote on 22 Aug 2019 19:49:
Markz wrote on 01 Jul 2019 20:42:
Firstly,
Therapist should do Therapy and Rabbis should share the word of Gd.
Maybe your therapist is humble, but I know of one ‘helping’ someone in my family that has their own work to do...
Secondly, if we are working a recovery program, the idea mentioned is correct. look at the next (newer) post on the “recent posts” page.
1)What is the essence of teshuva ? 2) in working a recovery program where is that expressed?
Rabbi Abraham J. Twerski wrote a book
Teshuvah Through Recovery - Experience the transformative power of the twelve steps
https://www.amazon.com/Teshuvah-Through-Recovery-Experience-transformative/dp/1614654093
Confused. Desperate. Trapped, with no way out. HEAR THE VOICES OF THOSE MOST VULNERABLE: Those addicted to alcohol, drugs, gambling, exposure to inappropriate material, and other destructive plagues of our times. Promising yeshivah bachurim, kollel yungeleit-no group is immune to the devastation of these dangers. Spouses and parents watch helplessly as their loved ones sink into pain and despair. In this eye-opening book on teshuvah and recovery, renowned author and psychiatrist Rabbi Abraham J. Twerski offers his wise insights into the psychological and spiritual aspects of addiction and the benefits of joining a twelve-step program. Included are inspiring personal accounts of those who have descended to the lowest recesses, yet emerged triumphant from the depths of darkness. Addressing the common questions addicts-and their families-ask, Rabbi Twerski challenges our thought processes and debunks the myths about addiction in the frum community. He tackles such topics as why this scourge is so widespread today, why the Twelve Steps are effective in addressing this problem, and where to turn for those desperately needed answers. Teshuvah through Recovery is a book that no suffering person or family should be without. Please be advised that this book contains sensitive material.
|
|
10 Dec 2019 12:51
|
|
pickamoniker
|
Thank you everyone for your feedback, encouragement and prayers; I really appreciate them.
I was at home again last night and had another long discussion with my wife about the whole situation. She is clearly (and understandably) very fearful and untrusting that things will ever be better. She is really worried that if we tried to get back together she will end up being "suckered" in to another period where things don't improve but she doesn't have the impetus to do anything about it and the situation will just turn over for years until it all blows up again. I really empathise with that fear, and being logical, the relapse rate in this addiction is ridiculously high, and my track record is really shoddy (to put it mildly).
However at the same time I do still believe that things are and can be different. The tools that I am using now to stay sober are different to any I have before and the fact is that they have worked for three months. No that doesn't give a guarantee that I won't ever lose my sobriety, however I truly believe that the last three months have proved that sobriety is a choice I can make and long-term sobriety is achievable (although it is difficult).
Anyway, for the meanwhile it does seem that there is at least some doubt that that is the path she will choose. In the meantime I have plenty of work to keep myself sober and carry on learning to live life without my drug. The past few days have been more difficult on the lust urges front. With all this uncertainty and turmoil my brain reaches for it's most natural and well used pathway to avoiding the pain and tells me to at least think about lust. Thank God I have not given in to the temptation to think about that stuff. I know that it is the thoughts in that area that are my real root addiction and so I simply can't use them in any way no matte how I am tempted. Each time my mind starts down that path I either:
- Tell it to stop (I tend to push an imaginary "stop" button on a desk / wall / whatever)
- Remind myself that this thought pattern is toxic and won't get me anywhere
- Remind myself that lusting is 100% not ok in my marriage
- Remind myself that the pain I am feeling is totally normal and ok to feel. I don't need to do anything about it and neither the pain, nor not lusting will kill me.
Then I get back to whatever I was doing / thinking about and if I have nothing to do find something either useful, enjoyable or distracting to do. If I am in bed then I just practice mindfulness - enjoying the experience of being without having to actually do anything. So far all of this has worked magic, so I fully intend to continue doing it.
Hope you all have a great day!
|
|
08 Dec 2019 01:43
|
|
Mark18
|
DavidT wrote on 06 Dec 2019 14:56:
Mark18 wrote on 05 Dec 2019 20:29:
I dont understand without the concept of ultimate free will the whole game is over and we are a bunch of robots and the entire torah goes out the window. I find it impossible to believe that the potential mass murderer has no free choice. If that were really true then jail and the consequences of execution become moot he is just not responsible (!!??) goes on his merry way with impunity and all is right with the world. There must always be a nekudah of bechira except in rare extreme cases such as paroh who made many choices which were evil and eventually Hashem took away his bechira to accomplish a greater purpose. Please explain further.
Do you have free will to drink some bleach or put your hand into fire for 2 minutes? SURE! But would you do it? NEVER!
Why not?? You have free will!
The answer is that free will means that there is am equal choice to do it or not to do it... So here are some examples of the 3 levels of what we consider free choice:
FREE CHOICE: eat Snack, do an easy mitzvah, learn torah for a few minutes
NO FREE CHOICE (positive): drink some bleach, put your hand into fire
NO FREE CHOICE (negative): guard your mind all day from bad thoughts, don't act out on lust (for people that are addicted to it)
Thank you for your profound explanation. Ive always had great difficulty in accepting the negative and sometimes very hurtful effects on others as a result of their "free choice" or lack thereof and how that unfortunately impacts on others in often a very damaging way. Your thoughts and insights are most welcome.
|
|
06 Dec 2019 14:56
|
|
DavidT
|
Mark18 wrote on 05 Dec 2019 20:29:
I dont understand without the concept of ultimate free will the whole game is over and we are a bunch of robots and the entire torah goes out the window. I find it impossible to believe that the potential mass murderer has no free choice. If that were really true then jail and the consequences of execution become moot he is just not responsible (!!??) goes on his merry way with impunity and all is right with the world. There must always be a nekudah of bechira except in rare extreme cases such as paroh who made many choices which were evil and eventually Hashem took away his bechira to accomplish a greater purpose. Please explain further.
Do you have free will to drink some bleach or put your hand into fire for 2 minutes? SURE! But would you do it? NEVER!
Why not?? You have free will!
The answer is that free will means that there is am equal choice to do it or not to do it... So here are some examples of the 3 levels of what we consider free choice:
FREE CHOICE: eat Snack, do an easy mitzvah, learn torah for a few minutes
NO FREE CHOICE (positive): drink some bleach, put your hand into fire
NO FREE CHOICE (negative): guard your mind all day from bad thoughts, don't act out on lust (for people that are addicted to it)
|
|
04 Dec 2019 22:19
|
|
lionking
|
sleepy wrote on 04 Dec 2019 19:37:
sleepy wrote on 04 Dec 2019 17:27:
cordnoy wrote on 04 Dec 2019 16:55:
DavidT wrote on 04 Dec 2019 15:31:
Hi All.
As there are so many good people here that are starving to be from the winners who finally got into the real recovery mode, I think if we would get some simple to follow top tips from the winners it would help a lot.
So to start: my humble opinion is that the most effective tool is coming out of the shadows. Depending on how deep the issue is (addiction or just bad desires). It can mean going to meetings or just posting about it and talking to other people and having accountability partner(s).
Please post what actually helped you and how others can put the same thing into practice.
Thank you.
There is a huge difference between a meetin', talkin' to real people and to just post. One is gettin' out of the shadows, the other isn't.
Godspeed
i think each one is a different level of getting out of the shadows ,posting and meeting with real people are worlds apart of getting out of the shadows,and every person should go to the next level of getting out of his comfort zone/the shadows,each one at his own pace.
there is even a thread called out of the shadows where the one who named it just posted ,and no one took any issue with it
. guardyoureyes.com/forum/19-Introduce-Yourself/311190-MY-PATH-TO-SANITY#311200
click it and youll see what i mean.
Thanks for the referral. I forgot I even have that thread.
B"H I have spoken on the phone with a couple of people since then, and even met one once.
I need to get back into doing that, because that has helped me much more than any posting has.
|
|
04 Dec 2019 16:55
|
|
cordnoy
|
DavidT wrote on 04 Dec 2019 15:31:
Hi All.
As there are so many good people here that are starving to be from the winners who finally got into the real recovery mode, I think if we would get some simple to follow top tips from the winners it would help a lot.
So to start: my humble opinion is that the most effective tool is coming out of the shadows. Depending on how deep the issue is (addiction or just bad desires). It can mean going to meetings or just posting about it and talking to other people and having accountability partner(s).
Please post what actually helped you and how others can put the same thing into practice.
Thank you.
There is a huge difference between a meetin', talkin' to real people and to just post. One is gettin' out of the shadows, the other isn't.
Godspeed
|
|
04 Dec 2019 15:31
|
|
DavidT
|
Hi All.
As there are so many good people here that are starving to be from the winners who finally got into the real recovery mode, I think if we would get some simple to follow top tips from the winners it would help a lot.
So to start: my humble opinion is that the most effective tool is coming out of the shadows. Depending on how deep the issue is (addiction or just bad desires). It can mean going to meetings or just posting about it and talking to other people and having accountability partner(s).
Please post what actually helped you and how others can put the same thing into practice.
|
|
03 Dec 2019 20:42
|
|
Iampowerless
|
Thanks everyone for your kind words yeah it really required deep soul searching and a heck of a lot of honesty (to myself) in order to write down this list, what this list does for me is when i get myself back into the denial stage and think i just have a "tayvoh" problem like every regular guy has, i look at this list and it forces me to face reality and agree that I've got a sickess/ addiction and it's time to get out of denial and face it head on........
@ sleepy i masturbated while driving before i joined GYE as well as after. But if you dont mind me asking and it may be hard to give an honest answer but what difference does it make it goes to show that I'm pretty sick regardless??
Btw i have since added two more craziness to my list
• Going back to my work office at 2-3 on erev shabbos and watching pornography until 30 minutes before shabbos because i just felt like i need it that fix so badly.
• Driving to watch porn, then feeling stupid so i start driving back home then i start once again driving towards my fix then again home.......etc, craziness of the addiction.
Love Yankel
|
|
03 Dec 2019 17:51
|
|
Tzvi5
|
Iampowerless wrote on 01 Dec 2019 17:55:
Hi everyone b'h I reached 2 weeks of sobriety by rejoining SA. Anyways i am continuing to work on my 1st step the more i work on this step the more i realize the craziness of this addiction..... and the more i realize I've tried everything to stop including GYE and all kinds of Tapschic/filters and every program had an expiration date eventually i fell..........i'm trully powerless over this deadly sickness i must continue attending SA and working the program.
Here is the list I've written so far for myself of episodes of acting out/analzing powerlessness in those episodes. I hope it belps others to truly understand the nature of this disease
• Shaking and shocked at the extreme of pornography 1st time i watched it in grandparents house......
• Looking encylopedias and any sort of book that would talk about the word sex for hours on end in extremely compulsive ways
• Listening to a radio show nonstop on sex for 2 hours at night for around 2 years with extreme compulsively and missed many chavrusas and commitments due to my need to listen to that show.
• Breaking 3 or 4 radios in the process. Tried to destroy the antennas of 2 cd players in my house countless times without success to try to stop myself from listening.........
• Grandparents house for hours on end including extremely late at night where i could have easily been caught X5-8
• Magazines/always looking for books then throwing it out and then going to the garbage to repick it to read it
• Going through halacha books as well as any book/ going through mail looking for material to lust
• Going through my mothers bras/drawers as well as while a guest in other people's house going through there drawers looking for lingerie.
• Going through the drawers/bedroom in my aunt's house while babysitting looking for pictures/see if i can find anything sexual.
• Missing a family trip to yellowstone and staying home for that full week in order to watch pornography i walked 30 minute plus to staples to buy a wifi stick to watch as my parents had removed wifi capacity from my home computer
• Airplane. Watching extremely sexual scenes even though the passengers next to me must have been shocked that an orthodox Jew is busy watching that and there were other frum jews on my flight X 5
• Acting out after a full night of learning shavuos night even though I was extremely exhaused.
• causing a flood while taking a shower in a strangers house when i got to israel due to dizziness from acting out in plan and i totally didn't even realize..........
• Mir dirah stealing friends phone in israel and then walking around 25 minutes every day sometimes twice a day to wifi x80-120 times.
• going to Israelis dirah and fighting with them to let me watch and use their movie player all the time even though they were uncomftorble about it. X30-60 times
• Mechalel Yom Kippur in israel due to me going crazy from nonstop acting out on yom kippur.
• Erev yom kippur in Lakewood in hospital due to cutting finger due to compulsive acting out beforehand and feeling dizzy
• Reading and looking at sex positions book in library while other people were around and trying to hide it when people walked near by x20
• Boss commenting to me "you seemed very busy on sunday" which was a day i watched pornography for hours on end at work to this day I worry that he "chapped"
• Watching nonstop during work including some times when my office mate was in the room. And coming back late at night to my office to watch porn until extremely late at night
• Using the small office by work to watch and one time i masturbated just as someone came into the room to ask me a question. To this day i worry that he "chopped" what i was up to.
• Nonstop acting out while dating as well as after dates and during the date the only thing that mattered and i was obsessed about was their looks.
• By dating mentioning to some girls that it's normal for man to have such strong needs and it's ok, trying to see how they would react.........
• Telling shadchanim i need the girl to dress like this or like that to help me out on the next date. Trying to force/manipulate what girls need to wear to dates......
• Watching news/videos just to see the women.
• Always picking the chair/seat in events facing the women so i can lust after them...........
• Always focusing on looks and tops of girls I'm with including family members and being jeolous of people/friends with pretty wifes
• Doubting and constantly testing myself sexually if I can get hard. Etc.
• Reading self help websites as well as sexual shalom bayis help chats and opening accounts to lady only jewish chats and getting caught by them
• Caught in library and kicked out by the security guard In front of everyone it was so embarrassing i promised myself that I'm done......yet 2 weeks later i was back in the library looked around and when i noticed that day there was a different security guard when straight to lustful actions
• Masturbating to everything stupid i could get my hands on including looking through Google maps for pictures to masturbate to........
• Putting juice/mayonaisse to help me masturbate.
• Joining random Whatsapp sexual chat groups sending pics and videos of my penis and requesting nonstop videos. Then deleting whatsapp as though that would help my addiction........
• Putting a filter on my work computer that sends emails to mommy and mommy getting emails that I'm watching porn........ even though i was so embarrassed and started seeing a therapist right after to help me with the addiction i still couldn't stop myself and very soon thereafter i was back to pornography.
• Trying to convince parents to get a filter because of feeling helpless.
• Nightly fight/ getting new filters and then right away searching and finding loopholes always in Tag the people there know me well
• Non stop tapschic/starting again with different shnidts through gye and while i had some nice days of sobriety eventually i kept falling.
• Masturbating while driving x5. What a retarded sickness........
• Going through the streets of LA trying to find a billboard i saw earlier.
• Going to the library for hours upon hours until extremely late at night and at times including when i was extremely exhaused such as after a date waiting and going crazy to get reception x30
• Giving chizuk to a fellow GYE member while at the same time trying to rush the call to watch porn
• Calling chat lines using and stealing brothers and parents credit card for the free trial
• Stealing grandmothers phone taking it into the bathroom to charge it so i could watch pornography x4 She probably got a crazy charge on grandmothers phone due to roaming charges
• Coming to work and hurrying to finish my tasks to get my porn fix. X50
• Browsing through nudes while there were other people in my room/office
• Nonstop masturbation including when other people were in the room and bedroom x10
• Going crazy spending tonz of time trying to find a particular book in grandparents house 2 weeks ago.
Why do people think they've tried everything? Make a list of everything and see if you're missing something. (I'm speaking rhetorically)
on a more serious note if one seriously wishes to change its possible but not easy .
|
|