Just came across this post - same point explained so well : guardyoureyes.com/forum/19-Introduce-Yourself/406231-The-Real-Me?limit=15&start=210#421325

Hashem Help Me wrote on 12 Sep 2024 20:49:

I am totally maskim that it is the same front. Turning to the news is often* coming from the same drive to escape my current reality that motivates a substantial chunk of my porn usage. My GYE usage is also driven by that - I spend too much time on this site and it's not healthy.

But these substitutes for porn are working. So I'm scared to try a week of not using technology except for necessary things because when I've tried that I've failed miserably and slid straight into acting out. I've tried before using "torah" sites as the alternative but it didn't work either. Would love advice on how to make it work. . .

The only area (though a very important one) I've made gains in this area is not going online after night seder. Just come home and go to bed instead of sitting around on the computer "unwinding". That was a pit into hell right there. I'd like to extend that to the whole time I'm home at night, but there are legit "online errands" that need to be done and it's tough. This I can work on though.

*People, men especially, generally have a very intense drive to know what's going on in the world, and a drive to not know the hock that other people know. That's definitely at play too.

Checking in.

Smooth going for the most part over Shabbos b"h. 

It's been going pretty well and I find myself worrying over the future. When Elul ends, when more difficult times come, when the motivation is gone and the lust comes raging like the tide. Trying very hard to take it just one day at a time and not let those thoughts perturb me. I am wondering though if there is more I could be doing in the good times to prepare for the bad?


I was in a seforim store the other day and I saw a new book out. It was called something like "Break Free" by Shaya Ostrow (might be misremembering the name of the book and the author). The cover said it was about "technology addiction" but I opened it up for a quick peak and it seemed to be explicitly about porn addiction. Anyone seen this? Read it? Can comment if it's a good book? 

I think it's amazing mainstream Jewish bookstores can put out a book like that and don't hide it away behind the counter.

Great schmooze today with a deep-thinking chaver I hadn't spoken to previously (and was sorely disappointed to hear his lack of a British accent).

One important topic that came up was motivation. Sometimes it feels like smooth sailing and calm seas. So much so that motivation isn't really required. Other times it's all thunder, whirlpools, Scylla and Charybdis. And then there's no motivation. Many times fall somewhere in between. 

The issue is that there's this paradox in that the really bad times should need the most motivation to get through them, but often those times also come along with a complete lack of motivation. What's to be done?

Some people keep up their motivation through a daily dose of chizuk - vayimaen, a daily read of TBOTG, whatever. But the problem is the really low times also come with no motivation to get motivated. 

This is something that concerns me, as I've never really gotten long-term sobriety and am fighting off worries that my current clean streak will dissipate at the end of Elul. 

And so but thinking about that, it's not really true. I did have a clean streak for a couple years when I was newly married. Yes it disintegrated like wet ash when life got a little more complex. And there were still issues of lust in my life. But by and large it was a long clean period. So what was the difference?

I was living a life. Busy with kollel, new marriage, stuff. I was also set up in a way to minimize challenges as much as possible (dumbphone, no consistent internet access etc.) 

So maybe the idea is after some real change, motivation won't be needed day to day. If we can build functional lives, build connections (to friends, to our spouse and to G-d), set up smart gedarim and stick to them. Maybe we won't need the same motivation, even when the going gets tough.

At least, this is what I'm hoping. Because motivation always fades.

chosemyshem wrote on 17 Sep 2024 21:13:

Ask if you can share this elusive Englishmans number, I'd also like to chat with him.
We come around to the idea that to really fix the porn/lust problem, we need to focus on other things. Like getting a life. No biggie. And then, when you already have a life and it's normal for you, and you get comfortable, the work is still to get a life. It's just a different level. Ya?

chosemyshem wrote on 17 Sep 2024 21:13:

Great question. 
I can’t talk about what will work for you, just about what has worked for me. 

I have two thoughts: 
1. It’s my experience and conviction that often the problem isn’t lust in-and-of itself. The problem is what we have become accustomed to use lust for, how it has become a solution to other problems and discomfort in life.
In the state of living where lust is a solution , one needs significant motivation to overcome the need to use lust. 
If a guy learn to make the changes, shvitz a litttke, and start living in a way that changes those patterns, the equation changes. You don’t need the same kind of motivation to overcome the urges, becuase they aren’t coming from the same kind of needs. 

2. Rewiring your patterns of living and acting really does make a difference. Psychologically (with a “p”), behaviorally, habitually, perhaps neurologically, and spiritually. 

Anyways, you’re thinking too much about more than today.

Today, dammit, today!!! 

I think you’re crushing today. 

love, 
Chaim 

Checking in.

Last week was technically sober, but a lot of white knuckling. Which comes out in ogling in the streets, which was pretty much unrestrained over the weekend. Friday I wanted to act out, but motivated by some Elul streak ego motivation I didn't. Instead, I distracted myself the whole workday with a stupid novel. Sunday I was pretending to watch my kid but was really trying to get an eyeful of someone across the street when my wife came out. She thanked me for watching the kid, which made me feel pretty dumb. 

I'll take any form of sobriety, and am very grateful for the clean week. Hoping for a new week that has more sanity though.

So this whole post isn't just about the lows (though I'm very happy about "lows" like these), I'll share a win from the past week though. Had a couple lousy days - kids were wild, wife was grumpy, work sucked. Something sunk in from all those 12 step lectures I've been listening to and I knew that if I held on to the resentment/self-pity I'd inevitably end up acting out. So I let it go. 

Was helpful. Not as helpful as I'd hoped, but helpful.

chosemyshem wrote on 23 Sep 2024 15:10:

Would you mind sharing your definition of the word sobriety with us?

When I find myself white-knuckling for a few days, I begin feeling like a phony.
On the one hand, I'm technically clean, but on the other hand, my mind is so full of sexual thoughts - so much more than when I do act on it.
But on the third hand (or one foot), there's the truth of לא המדרש העיקר אלא המעשה. Ultimately, what matters is how I act, not how I feel and think.
Then, on to the second foot, our actions are typically influenced by our thoughts and feelings.

This line of reasoning is one of the catalysts behind rationalizing my way out of "technical sobriety" into full-blown indulgence. And then the cycle repeats.

I'll leave the mic open for whoever wants to jump in here with a post about how not acting out for 90 days rewires your brain and how you think and feel.

thompson wrote on 23 Sep 2024 15:44:

Your totally right that there's a lot of room for vague fuzziness in "sobriety". That's why SA uses a simple definition of sex with anyone you shouldn't be having sex with (including yourself a.k.a masturbating, but generally not including your spouse.) 

I like that simplicity, but include consuming any form of pornography/erotica.

Lusting in my heart, looking at woman at the street, fantasizing etc. etc. etc. are all things I want to stop too, but are not practical to include in the definition of losing sobriety. First, because they're fuzzy. But more importantly, if I counted every dumb thought or look as a fall I'd have like two clean days ever. Those things will come, but I'm not holding my self to an impossible standard. As you pointed out, holding oneself to an overly high standard just allows them to rationalize their way into acting out.

That's my definition, feel free to pick your own.