connected wrote on 10 Oct 2023 14:54:

I thought Thesaurus went extinct along with all the other 'Saurus'

foolie wrote on 10 Oct 2023 15:38:

From Rabbi Joey Rosenfeld:

Addicts do not crave drugs because they enjoy the high, they are always already in a state of perpetual craving. The high simply interrupts the ceaseless desire for a moment. When the drug wears off, the craving returns.

connected wrote on 10 Oct 2023 14:54:

Speaking of Reb Joey and his thoughts on addiction, here's one that jives with this complaint:

Recovery is not about joy or success, it is about acceptance. Living, not in spite of ones lack, but in and through the lack itself.

Sounds like something in The easy Way to stop smoking. The pleasure of the cigarette is just taking a break from the pain of the lack between smoking.

He gives a mashal. Someone who is size 40 shoes, wear size 36 and walk around for 5 hours. Take off the shoes for 10 minutes. Awesome pleasure?? Sort of, but really all you're doing is putting yourself in pain the rest of the day. The pleasure is what a regular, nonsmoker can feel all day..

frank.lee wrote on 10 Oct 2023 21:08:

I've actually been on this ride for a while. Reading the easy peasy method played a role in helping me get on the coveted Wall Of Honor for a short while.

As long as I had my head stuck up my rear in, in terms of what might be causing me to want to watch porn, it worked. But at some point, I started feeling that it was an oversimplification - at least in my case. It might be true for others and be more of a longer-term fix for them. Yachol Lihiyot.

Reb Joey just points out that, for the addict, a "normal state" can be unbearable, so they need what others would call a "high" to be okay. That's all.

Allan Carr uses this point to say, just stop going for the high and get used to the normal state. I don't think he addresses deeper underlying reasons why a person might seek out the high. Is it to escape from pain? Anxiety? Some other concoction of inner ailments? In many cases, as long as the inner environment isn't taken care of, there's no getting used to "normal".

God, thank you for giving me a friend who helped me yesterday get past an urge. Please help me stay sober today.
Protect me from my know-it-all ego; even as I write these lines, it's whispering to me, "Wow, that looks real good. Like a genuine, humble guy." (that too).

Yesterday I fell asleep to the sweet sound of Dov saying, "Elohai Netzor Leshoin Meirah". He went on for another hour, but I was out. I hope he's not offended.

As one who has the occasional hard moment of realization that I’m an insufferable know-it-all who people can’t stand sometimes for it (including my wife), I appreciate that you are struggling with and working on it. Now I will return to ignoring the uncomfortable fact and feel good that I’m posted something somewhat thoughtful and contemplative.  

On the other topic, you’ve articulated it so clearly! 
Merely Focusing on the mechanics of trigger, cause, desire, thought, mindfulness and avoidance does not address the existential suffering that is daily living for some people. For those individuals, their drug of choice is a solution more than it is a problem. 
I’m not sure how the Program addresses this problem,( though I understand that it can for many). 
Sometimes, though, there can be internal shifts, new glimmerings of feeling that can change the way the stuff inside swirls.
For me, over years, it was changing certain relationships and discovering new kinds of satisfaction. With Hashem’s help, my internal environment eased. Then the other stuff helped, to deal with residual patterns. 

Don’t know if this helps at all, but maybe I can lend you a little hopefulness. Either way, I’m feeling what you’re saying, my friend. 

Here's a bug that started dancing in me a while back and more recently with more zest:

Porn gives me instant benefits and future pain. (I rarely feel bad/ashamed when I'm done.)
Sobriety gives me instant pain (sometimes) and future benefits.
If I'm trying to live in the present moment, wouldn't it make more sense to enjoy porn today and not worry about the future consequences?

God, protect me from my mind.
Help me live one day at a time while acknowledging the future.
Help me feel the joy of sobriety while I'm attaining it.
Umein.
(I wrote the last word with that pronunciation for a plot twist.)

Porn equals instant gratification 
instant gratification equals momentary pleasure 
momentary pleasure equals looking for the next momentary pleasure 
running from momentary pleasure to momentary pleasure equals emptiness so by the associative properties of logic Porn equals emptiness therefore it makes no sense to while living in the moment do something that is empty and devoid of purpose just to do something

connected wrote on 13 Oct 2023 17:06:

Reminds me of something I posted way back, which happens to be on this week’s Parsha. 

https://guardyoureyes.com/forum/19-Introduce-Yourself/111583-hello-my-friends?limit=15&start=420#146084
הוּא יְשׁוּפְךָ רֹאשׁ, וְאַתָּה תְּשׁוּפֶנּוּ עָקֵב...

(based on Sforno but I'm not sure it's what he meant)

Hashem is talking to the snake AKA the Yetzer HoRa. He tells him, if "he", i.e the person, wins, he will cause pain in the "head", in the beginning, but the end will be sweet. But if you, the YH, win, the beginning may be pleasure but the "heel", the end, will be pain.

I try to focus, sometimes, on the distinction between living in the moment, and living for the moment. 

foolie wrote on 13 Oct 2023 17:20:

You missed a perfectly good opportunity to write "ergo."
Oh vell.

chaimoigen wrote on 15 Oct 2023 02:39:

This is gold, Chaim(Jerry, GOLD!).
Some good food for thought. Thanks.

Today's prayer:

Dear God,
I haven't watched porn in four weeks, and I haven't masturbated in a week; I'd very much like to do both now.
I know that these actions are not good for me.
They numb me.
They give me the illusion of intimacy.
They make me apathetic to my relationship with my wife.
They make me apathetic to life.
And yet, they are among the top things I'd love to do right now.
Help me.

Blah.

I think you speak for many of us