nederman wrote on 25 Oct 2012 10:09:

That's awesome - I wish for more people to do this!

The 'counting' business is so mitnageid to real life, to living in today with Hashem for real, to 'one day at a time'. For it emotionally ties people to the future (which is a davar shelo ba la'olam) and to the past (which is by definition, over). While it does serve as a chizzuk, it still only works that way in the long run for those people who discover they are dependent on a Power greater than themselves to stay clean - for they are the ones who see the pile of days and give Hashem the credit rather than themselves. 'Success' does not poison them with gayvoh and it's sister: complacency.

I have many program buddies who are sober for years and do not share their sobriety count when they introduce themselves at the begining of typical SA meetings. Many of them do not even keep track themselves of how long it has been since they last had to act out their lust - they just know it was 'the week before last Pesach, (lehavdil) kratzmoch, or whatever', lemoshol. True, it is important that when there is a new guy in the room we do share the length of our sobriety to tell them: there is hope and you can make it, too. Though we all know that the guy with ten years is no better morally or otherwise than the guy with one day! He has just had enough, apparently, that's all, and has not forgotten that.

But when we are newbies, it often helps a lot to share our sobriety date at the start of meetings. Not for any silly 'responsibility to the group' - for there is none of that, in reality. Rather, it is often our first furtive foray (3F's in a row!) into real (not imagined) honesty and openness. Losing our sobriety and sharing it openly in a non-judgementtal group of other powerles addicts is a lightyear from rationlizing silly things (as we always did) and hiding it (as we always did) and trying harder for next time (which we always did). If we newbies do not stay open about our successes and failures, we will start to lie to ourselves. It's what we do best. : Sharing the date means that I will automatically report failures and then I am more likely to detail them openly and arrive at some new path, be"H.

But after about six months or a year of continuous sobriety, I think the drawbacks begin to overcome the benefits. Then, it may be better just to do what lots of guys in the SA meetings I attend do: "Hi folks, I'm so-and-so and am co grateful that I am sober today!"

That's my opinion. Hatzlocha Think Good in your thinking!

Hey - have a nice day everyone!

76 days

Thanks Reb Dov, but at least for me the counting does help.

1) Accountability to all you guys
2) I don't have enough fear of heaven, but I am embarrassed to fall in front of all of you
3) Showing an example to all the new guys that we can stay clean

My issue was there are lots of members on the 90 day chart who are not sharing their struggles. If they did maybe it will help them and help and encourage others who may read these posts , but do not participate.

Think wrote on 28 Oct 2012 09:24:

Agreed 100%!

But as for me, I hope you slowly and gradually let yourself think more and more in terms of the fact that your sobriety time is ultimately private, between you and your Best Eternal Friend. Reasons 1&2 are heiche-timtzas for the only real integrity and real life that there is: the relationship between us and our G-d. (see the 1st chelek of Bilvavi Mishkan Evneh for more in this idea, if you want).

As far as #3 goes, I agree, too, and that's why I share my sobriety date at my regular SA meetings when there are new people there that night.

And I want to share a frustrating thing about admitting struggles. You are so very right about your contention. People refrain from sharing the details of their struggles because of some seemingly good reasons, and some patently silly ones;

1- it's too embarrassing (yup!)
2- it is a chillul hashem (sheker)
3- it will weaken others who are struggling and need to see people have success here (so Hashem's gift is based on lying now?)
4- someone here might know me and read this and tell on me (huh?)
5- it might give hirhurim to others c"v (...then explain how that is anything nearly as triggering as the two hours they just spent on line staring at naked people having sex? - just plain silly)

So. Please keep doing your part to share your good and your bad times...or we can all keep us this charade forever.

Sadly, when I admit here on GYE a struggle I have or had, there are always the few guys who email me something like, "Oy! I see that recovery really does not work, if you can still have a problem!" :o

Silly, isn't it? :

Staying cool with you, buddy 8)

Dov

78 days




1- this is what tshuvah is all about admitting we did something wrong and then deciding on actions to first stop (Rambam). embarrassing Hashem already knows!

2- the chillul hashem is not opening up. If the only way you are going to stop is to open up then what are you waiting for? GYE is here to help but you need to grasp the lifeline!!

3- No - No - No The YH is tricking you, How many Tzdikem are there? Most of us are not meaning 99.999%. Males happen to be attracted to women, (at least most). That's what a Torah life is all about - improving yourself and rectifying what needs to fixed. Looking at porn, women, hirhurim is just one part of he whole picture. GYE, SA works - it's probably the only way - Chassidus and musar are not enough for an addict!!!

4 - CV - Very unlikely, Do you want a cure or do you want to hide behind flimsy reasons

5 - hirhurim ?! Almost anything can turn on an addict! Excuses why you don't want to participate

79 days

83 days

wow!! top of the chart 86 days

87 days

Shloshes ymay hagbala!

Keep it up!

90days+!!!

Mazel tov! As they say, when my brother makes a simcha, it's my simcha as well. Thanks for making my day, and keep up the momentum.

MT

Mazel Tov!!!!

KUTGW!!!

KOMT!!!!

Think Good Think Good Think Good Think Good Think Good Think Good Think Good Think Good Think Good Think Good Think Good Think Good Think Good Think Good Think Good Think Good Think Good Think Good Think Good Think Good Think Good Think Good Think Good Think Good Think Good Think Good Think Good Think Good Think Good Think Good Think Good Think Good Think Good Think Good Think Good Think Good Think Good Think Good Think Good Think Good Think Good Think Good Think Good Think Good Think Good Think Good Think Good Think Good Think Good Think Good Think Good Think Good Think Good Think Good Think Good Think Good Think Good Think Good Think Good Think Good Think Good Think Good

You have just re-wired you brain and endocrine system to produce dopamine, oxytocin, and serotonin and thereby experience pleasure from normal pleasuable activities instead of from P&M.

Gevaldig!

JTLR!!

dov wrote on 13 Nov 2012 17:10:

Indexing...

ummm.... what does that mean Dov?