I think things are getting better now. I felt totally disabled yesterday from having leaked zera into my urethra (that's what it felt like.) I couldn't concentrate on anything. Finally I decided I must ejaculate because I have to function to provide for all the people that depend on me, but my wife was not interested and I did nof think it was advisable to let her go through it with a lot of pain. I was terrified that she'd have a miscarriage as happened in the past, but B"H nothing bad happened.

I think I was feeling an unusually irresistible desire because I thought I had her over a barrel basically. I feel like I actually stand a chance now that I know she isn't forced to comply.

I'm sorry mr mzl, but I must say my piece.
You sound like you have it rough and I feel for you.

Just for the record, I have struggled with mzl (the other one) for many years, prior to marriage and post (ummm... post the beginning of marriage, as marriage is still ongoing, for better or for worse).
I have also struggled with wife issues, such as asking for sex when she wasn't interested, and I have been guilty of that for years.

(In previous posts, I blamed it mostly on her or by the uniform girls on the corner, or the Puerto Ricans on the other corner.)

Thankfully, I am at a decent place now; not done with it, but much better than past.

That was my post intro.

This business of yours that your mzl will lead to a miscarriage, please. Where is that thinking from? Why would you come to such a conclusion? I know you may respond that she had three and it was immediately post your seed spilling, but there was a high percentage of those things coinciding regardless!? Then, you go on about the need to ejaculate for the sperm was already traveling the canal. Come on. You gotta know that there's no such thing. One can have a raging hard on for days and then go thru hoshana raba with shaking willows and bobbing scrolls, and all is back to its normal state. And finally, I understand marriage is tough and I experience it hourly, but you have her over the barrel and she thinks you'd be a good mommy and she wants s provider and you want an actress, and the other things you described; has all that been documented? Have you had that conversation with her?

You say a lot of stuff as fact, but you don't really provide proof, and I must say that some of your stuff is definitely not poshut pshat.

In conclusion, firstly, don't take this hard, as I am just trouble. Secondly, I admire your persistence in beating this sh*t and especially your courageous willingness to curb the sex demand from your wife. That is noble and something worth emulating. Lastly, keep at it.

I just think that people are scared to argue, so I am. I'm not arguing with you; I'm just questioning some stuff. I really hope I didn't say anything outta line, I just wanna bring to light that not everything that's written here is kodesh kodoshim, especially this post of mine.

After all, what does a lust engulfed couch potato like me actually know? Probably nothing!

Peace bro!

I'm not using quotes because it's not working.

I don't blame you for saying this is weird, I think it is too. I think the miscarriage thing is pretty certain, I have good data on it. But it may apply to the first forty days, because she is still okay now.

Fortunately for you you can't speak about my anatomy. I'm pretty sure there was always some problem with it. I have no idea how someone has an erection for a couple of days and then get past it without using some special behavior.

I'm not afraid to argue, but I've learned not to do it because it makes a lot of people nervous.

I don't have to provide proof of anything. I'm not trying to convince people. I write posts about myself for selfish purposes, to be active on the forum and create a compelling reason to stay clean. Sometimes I write posts to other people. If I volunteer ideas they are also written in an operational way, which is easily tested for correctness. I don't write with a lot of metaphors or analogies.

I like your post but it's a little out of character for you

Big fan of trouble...

Day 1

I realize that I might be sparking an explosion with my comment but is there a real need to post so much details on a chat which single guys like me have access to? We've been exposed to enough already.. maybe there's no forum "on the way to 90 days" in the balei batim forum, I don't know as I have no access to it..

so you might advice me not to read this forum, that's true but what about all the other single guys especially teens

I'm sorry if I offended you mzl in anyway, and apologize if I do, I just felt the need to bring it up overpowers it.

Anyhow keep trucking mz"l

#1- Chaver, you refer to your anatomy as being unique, you make not-so-veiled references to "various things I can't elaborate on" regarding your wife and your sexuality and state you have data to back up your beliefs re miscarriage R"l, all mushy and "trust me"-ish...so I get the feeling that with all your posting, you are still living in secrets. You are a great guy, but still megaleh tefach umechaseh t'fochayim. And I'm sure that in your (truly!) analytical mind it's all for good reason and must be this way 'for reasons that can't be divulged.' Maybe you'd benefit a lot more finding safe people who can help you where your mind falls short, instead of just playing around here.

Ok, ok.

So a few things that can be divulged:

The zera levatola excuse for your failed pregnancy(ies) is creative.  And when a sex-dependent man 'valiantly' opens up to his wife about this, it's often a subconscious way to assure he'll get the sex he craves from her... essentially, it's blackmail. Not valiant, at all. How can she not cater to his every sexual whim now, with the stakes so high?! Her preservation of her feminine dignity may come at the expense of her baby's very life (because he's got zera to spill, not her).

What a stupid, unfair, and manipulative arrangement that is. I'm not assuming you have fell into this, just bringing it up for those who might be there.

And if the same husband doesn't open up to her about this, it's still counterproductive just to harbor such a belief! For he's walking around with this nutty and anti-Torah conviction in his head and thus thus guaranteed to be focused on sex and his sperm almost all the time, now. We see this trick being played all over GYE and the frum world, of course. What's anti-Torah about it, is the surety of the knowledge in the mind of the myopic genius...we've all been there! Especially in adolescence, remember the drama? Back when so many really dumb things were a huge deal...remember? Adolescents are shockingly arrogant in this respect. I remember what it was like very well, and I remember taking chazal's and stretching them to cover reality quite nicely, in those days. 

Arrogant people make claims of clear, vindictive midah k'neged midah in their lives. Acting as if they're nevi'im, they cause untold guilt that often lives on for generations. I have seen this in families and it's horrible. But even worse, it's selfish, ultimately cruel. And it's based on arrogance. Because we all know that there are many, many reasons for dinnei Shomayim. I do believe one cause for such tragedies can be sperm-wasting. But dinei Shomayim are so much more complex.  Playin prophet is fun. A selfish, arrogant and myopic sweet luxury. And making a gargantuan, powerful issue of my sins makes me feel oh, so powerful. It's a problem sooo many high school rebbis I know, struggle sooo hard to help their talmidim out of!

I've been feeling like ignoring much of the conversation here, but decided to hop in a bit now.

#2- right when you wrote about resetting your GYE wall of honor day-counter because of having pressured your wife for sex with you, the yellow flag was thrown on the field. 

Sometimes redefining my own sobriety can be very good thing to do...but a person doing such a thing usually needs guidance before taking that slippery slope. But you appear to be a fellow who will generally go his own way rather than seek guidance, let alone defer to it. So I kept my mouth shut. But the slope appears to be getting slipperier, so I'm speaking up now. Will you consider it?

I've seen enough cases over the years of good guys in 12-step meetings who have had some real sobriety for a significant period of time lose it all and leave -- because they saw themselves doing something that was not a real of violation of their group's sobriety definition, yet restarted their sobriety count. They didn't see it at the time, but what they were doing was based on arrogance. The regular sobriety definition just wasn't honorable enough for them. As long as their sobriety wasn't a thing they could be completely proud of, they just couldn't stomach it. So they valiantly stepped forward, essentially saying "my definition of sobriety is Superior to this group's definition." Being A Cut Above suited them just fine.

And in most cases, the next thing you know, they lose their sobriety even by the group's 'inferior' sobriety definition! 

The truth, of course, was that they could have stayed with their original (group's) sobriety definition all along, and added a public commitment to do/not do xy&z. Why in the world did they have to recount their sobriety date? Just to be super-duper good, that's why. And sometimes that's just arrogance at work.

I'm not sure if you did this and im not accusing you of anything. But I wonder if you, chaver, would have actually masturbated yourself no matter what the reason, if your count was still 132 or whatever it would have been up to had you not been a hero and dropped your standing on the GYE wall of honor. 

Some folks here lauded your honesty, bravery, etc...but I feared it was just arrogance slipping in, that old hatred of mediocrity many of us have. I'm so familiar with it. And here you are, masturbating again.
​
What do you think?

It's all good in theory but in my particular case I didn't change the definition out of arrogance because my main purpose is just to have peace in my home so my kids can grow up in it. I was concerned that I would use my wife as a last minute sperm catcher and put her through a lot of physical pain in the process. I think it was a good move. Even for me, because over time she would resent me.

Regarding miscarriages resulting from sperm being destroyed, that is not something I would expect in my case, but I can't ignore the facts over that last few years. When my wife has a miscarriage she gets very upset and depressed. I'm just thrilled that for whatever reason which escapes me we don't have to put up with that this time around. Or so it seems for now.

I did discuss it with her, she was very upset about it and through that I realized that my wife is not mature enough to deal with such a high pressure situation. So I finally had to make a decision on my own to masturbate in order to release her from having to service me in pain for the duration of the pregnancy.

To answer your question: I would not have masturbated. My main source of desire is my wife. I think what seemed irresistible to me was the idea that she had to yes in order to save the baby. But I wanted to live with her to satisfy that craving, not do it on my own.

Hopefully now we'll be able to get back to the usual arrangement we have during pregnancies, which is that she is not available because she is not in the mood.

I did some good work on the house yesterday, and I didn't hurt anybody.

It sounds weird because we are weird.

Shnitzel and kugel wrote on 09 Oct 2018 04:23:

I think you are saying that if you are not married yet you don't want to hear about the difficulties a husband might have.

I see where you're coming from, but in my case my wife is my p*rn. I don't use p*rn on the internet because since I became frum my computer breaks each and every time I do it, and I need my computer to work. When I masturbate usually I think about my wife, sometimes other fantasies.

So I don't really write about marriage.

I feel like I let everybody on the forum down by acting out. I will bl"n try to do a better job.

While, yes people on the forum get motivation from each other. I think foremost you should worry about letting yourself down. "Dov" has been around the block and I would give sometime to think about the points he made. Recovery sometimes is more about how we deal with situations then if we can stop the actual act. Its easy to be clean for 90 days sleeping but if its 90 days of hell then have we really treated anything? The people I talk to who are clean for a while seem really at peace with their situation and are working on things but not fighting tooth and nail.

We are all rooting for you! 

It was a pretty pleasant 117 days. I didn't feel like I was holding my breath. I think another man would have divorced this wife long ago but I'm not interested in doing that.

Dov has a very different situation.

Well, you know very little about my situation. You also don't know what my situation used to be like, versus how it is now. And I think that's a very important detail and very relevant. It appears to me from the way you respond to most of the advice given you (and certainly to most of the criticism) that you judge the perspective of others rather quickly, to exclude/exempt yourself...

The truth is that there are probably many guys like you, and that you and your marriage arrangement and even your secret details, are probably easily understood by many other people with issues of their own that are quite similar.

As long as your main connection is through this public forum, you will never really get the help that you need. Because you are right! It is 100% true that an open internet forum is no place for anyone to set out their dirty laundry - therefore it is no place to get the real help that anyone with real life problems needs. The problem is that your contentions that 1- you are unique, 2- that your problems are not really worth trying to explain because they are not understandable by other people, and that 3- even if they could be understood by others this forum is unfortunately not a safe enough place to reveal them...are all just excuses you are using to continue managing your whole situation yourself, the way you want to. There's nothing new there, many people have outgrown this forum yet still hiding it behind a fake name for one excuse or another and never grow past it to get better. You don't have a leiv nishbar, and that's ok. It's not a requirement/chiyuv. I sincerely doubt that you are an addict and I never try to convince anyone that they are an addict or to work the Steps.

Should it ever arise that you decide that you do want better for yourself than you and your intelligence can ever provide, then I'm confident that you will make different choices and get real help. Leiv nishbar refers to the broken egotism, obviously, and we are told it is a very precious thing.I believe that real help can be found in many places...as long as it is really real.

Your life and relationships as you describe them, do not happen to appeal to me. But I respect your choices and preferences and if you are okay with what you've got then who am I to say it's not good enough?

Have a good day, chaver!

You are right about my lev. It was nishbar at one point. I decided that that would never happen to me again.

Day 2