mzl wrote on 05 Aug 2018 14:03:

Just for the record, you deserve most of the credit for 'dispelling' your own desire, not we. You are the one wjo reached a bit past your own comfort zone - and that little bit has paid off for about 2 months already, for you.

Your contention that G-d hates sexual thoughts has no basis in fact. Please reconsider before posting ideas that are a bit misleading. There's a lot to say about the topic but writing in bitter generalities isn't helpful. You write with bitterness, and unfortunately it has been a pattern of yours that others have picked up on, too. It raises the hackles of others and puts up their defences, and I think that's unfortunate. For you probably have a lot to give but wear a coat of prickly mail that protects you from actually making more friends than you have here. And I'm sure the loss is mutual. I think you can drop it and be more vulnerable, as most people are who are liked. The cost is not that high...unless you need approval for everything you do. People with self-esteem that weak can't afford vulnerability, so they often opt for self-pity, "me against the world", armchair criticism of society, extremism, insisting they quickly grasp the truth and understand better than others, and often busy themselves with the moral inventory of those around them. A little loneliness isn't that much to pay, is it? And it's lonely at the top...but better than being mediocre and one of the 'Great Unwashed'.

The things you have claimed about your wife, you do, yourself and claim about others. I think you are projecting...a lot. Think it over. It'll be a great relief for you to break out of the hole you have dug for yourself. 'Karma' isn't your problem. There are no 'barons of recovery'. You're the one who casts yourself out, and there is no 'power' here that you have "talked truth to"...you're making all that up.

Don't bother considering this:

If you want the people in this forum to change their behavior - or your wife to change hers, there is a simple solution and it is very close to what you suggested:

You wrote that they only hope of finally changing your wife is the intervention of an outside force, correct?

I'm suggesting that you beginning to focus exclusively on cleaning your own side of the street without trying to manage or criticize others around you, is outside your experience, so far. It's an outside force - a thing that would be very new to you and those immediately around you (and even here on the Forum). Try that out for two weeks. And watch what happens to the way people interact with you here. Try it out for a month and watch what happens to your wife's behavior and priorities.

My wife discovered this trick years ago. My sponsor and many of my friends in SA have been demonstrating it to me for the past 21 years, and I'm getting better and better at it myself.

That's why I'm sharing all this stuff with you. It's the stuff that is making my own life better. Why should I be selfish and keep it to myself?

I like this post a lot. You're right on target with the self-outcasting.

I don't need my wife to change to be okay but it's an interesting prospect.

I am going to take some time later and parse your post properly. I don't want to rush through it.

I think I did something really self-defeating by posting that I easily get socked with expenses because over the last couple of days I grew a big financial problem and I want to say that Hashem is telling me that I'm not giving Him credit for all the times that He keeps the creditors away and I don't even know about it.

Point taken. Ma nochal?

At least I have some people to tell this to.

The one good thing about it is that I had the money conversation with my wife again and it went a lot better than ever before I know what her convictions are and justify them and I can't really bring myself to blame her or look down on her for it.

Dov wrote on 06 Aug 2018 21:57:

I take credit for effort. Self-monitoring is work. But I am positive that without the forum I would not bother. Because I don't think not masturbating once a week to old memories is that important in the grand scheme of things. I have to stay clean for the wrong reason.

I quoted the Mesillas Yesharim about evil thoughts being an abomination of G-d. I think it's probably a reliable sourcd and I don't find that an unbearable idea. So Hashem abominates some little part of me. But I think overall He's still happier that I'm here. I think Hashem likes to watch people learn to overcome challenges.

I refuse to feel guilt when it comes to sex addiction because I think guilt is a scam perpetrated against myself. Guilt makes you engage in a cover-up operation. But people don't understand that when I say "my thoughts must be an abomination for G-d," I don't mean it with sadness but with a sense of curiosity.

I don't know who is writing with bitterness because of me. If you're referring to Shlomo24 I think you are probably giving me way too much credit. Maybe you can bring me some examples of bitter writing by others.

I think you are right on target with regard to keeping people at a distance. And I talked about that in earlier posts as well. But it's not because I don't want to be vulnerable. It's involuntary at this point. It's a combination of a few highly unusual ways of looking at looking at world.

Basically I'm really weird. I even made my boss laugh at a recent evaluation because I said that I plan on becoming more normal. It's because of the bipolar problem. I used to hold that I am worthwhile if and only if I'm working on something remarkable. This attitude applied over decades created someone who had remarkable skills but who is off to the side.

You're wrong about the power thing. But you can't see it because you have a conflict of interest. There's always power in the world. I don't want to discuss this in detail because it just causes fighting.

I was happy until cordnoy told me that I was being indecent. I just don't think that's accurate. I don't want to discuss what the problem is here because, again, it's not productive.

I did not write that I hope my wife will change. I think you are saying that she responds to my change with her change, and I think that's correct and I don't remind myself of that enough. Instead of working on a relationship I just accept the current state and focus on empathy so I can have peace of mind. That is a great point.

Day 60

Responding to Dov above made me totally forget about my financial problem for a little while. That was a nice little gift.

Mzl, I apologize for my wordin'. I think my point was a valid one, but I'm willin' to move forward, like I have been.

To others: please do not defend me; it's fine. Let's move on to recovery for all. More clean days. More life-livin'. In this merit, let God shine His light on all of us.

Godspeed to all.

If you watch movies - watch fireproof

cordnoy wrote on 07 Aug 2018 05:17:

I think I understand the point basically. I need to write diplomatically because people's feelings are at stake. I don't get because I am very good at minimizing things, but it's a distortion. It comes off as really mean or sociopathic or whatever the right term is.

growup wrote on 07 Aug 2018 15:22:


I found a description of that movie. The movie sounds like it was written specifically for MZL, based on his posts here.

Dovid824 wrote on 07 Aug 2018 22:53:

I watched a trailer. I don't want to watch it because she's too hot for me, she wears make up and high heels. I read the plot on wikipedia though.

However my wife and I are nothing like that couple.

Seems funny in a romantic comedy sort of way.

Day 61

I was thinking that when the Torah says that you are not allowed to eat the blood because you are not allowed to eat the nefesh maybe that's because if you are eating the nefesh you are incorporating the animal nature in yourself, whereas if you just the meat that meat doesn't turn you into more of an animal.

mzl wrote on 08 Aug 2018 00:46:

Listen man, you seem like a nice guy - your wife - we never heard her side. That's why i said to watch the movie, it makes you learn how to connect even with someone, who seemingly is the selfish one.
Once you, we, i realize that porn and whatever it comes with, makes us 1) selfish (by nature we are all sefish, but porn multiplies that by dozens of millions of times, every time a girl in a movie or picture does something that i find pleasure in, i am building a fortress of  selfishness where people do things for me to pleasure me) 2) self centered (all i did was focus on myself whether it was in the bathroom with a magazine or with a prostitute [was never with one just saying] etc, i forgot about all the important things places or people i had to be with, in life and turned my body into a amusement park, obviously that is enforcing that i  - the big boss - needs to be taken care of first and only and always. 3) makes us expect all women girls ladies (even men) to be perfect in all areas of their body, moods, likes and style of sex (don't think i need to explain that one).
All of the sudden we realize there is life without porn and most people dont think about lust the whole day, and aside from the way my wife looks, she is a person, and people are כמים פנים אל פנים, so, there might possibly be a faint distant far fetched almost not plausible tzad - that it is me who is selfish, it was me that needs help and bettering which is a proven method to make your spouse and/or coworker and/or friend and/or anyone else you may come across with (besides my shvigger ) also want to do more for you. I am not here to give you a shalom bais shmuz, but just curious is there anyone else in your life, besides your wife, that you also find faults in? because that would be a sign that it may be you, of course its not he only siman.

Now i hope you forgive me, that was me talking to me out loud. but just to make you smile check out this picture

I appreciate your lengthy post here. But I don't think my wife is so selfish. I guess it can seem as if I feel that way.

Perhaps I should explain that my desire is pretty low, and so is my resentment, and that's because when I feel a tremendous desire I don't give it up to G-d. People who have a huge desire don't understand that that desire is oversized and that it's only in their heads. Therefore they are inclined to resent people, blame people, etc because "how can you not give me what I need when my need is sooo large." And of course others don't see the magnification of the need which is only in your head. My need is not that large any more. Now be careful before you tell yourself that I'm a liar.

I'd love to understand your sefer snapshot but I really can't.

The movie looks good but I can't watch it. She's hot. I don't challenge myself unnecessarily.