A few years ago it was hard to imagine I'd be back here. I was clean for a few years and was ecstatic with my growth. Sad to say, those days are now a thing of the past. I have now destroyed my soul again and I'm dying to find my way back to Hashem.

My 90 day journey now begins again.

Hashiveinu Adonai elecha v'nashuva..........

Interestin' quote.

What d'ya think happens first in this case?
Does God return us to him first, or do we do the returnin' first?

An important and difficult question which can definitely be argued for hours on end.

To me it is clear that we are incapable of taking a single step without Hashem's enabling us to do so. So the action and thought process of returning are a gift from Him to begin with. We are offered bechira, yes, but even within those parameters I think we need to realize that our capabilities and achievements are not truly completely ours, and to be thankful for being among the privileged to even have a speck of a good mindset to return.

cordnoy wrote:


ז"ל מדרש רבה סוף איכה: השיבנו ה' אליך ונשובה - אמרה כנסת ישראל לפני הקב"ה: רבש"ע, שלך הוא, השיבנו! אמר להם: שלכם הוא, שנאמר: שובו אלי ואשובה אליכם נאם ה'. אמרה לפניו רבש"ע, שלך הוא, שנאמר: שובנו אלהי ישענו

In my very humble opinion. And without offending any feelings. It is not Honorable for the Holy Name of G.od Almighty , The G.od Of Israel and Supreme King of the world to be written in a semantic pronunciation way even if in the english language. Let the moderators or guard of this holy site decide on this case what to do. It is well understood that this site is public domain and democratic in a way that there are many different backgrounds of memmbers and they are all given the right to express themselves as they see fit.And it is with this same right that i am hereby for the sake of the Honor of G.od, expressing my very humble opinion. I reiterate that this is my opinion and it doesnt necesarily represent what is written in the jewish law.

Shmiras, welcome back.

I feel ur pain that you fell. Kudos to you for getting up again and restarting the challenge.

In between these times many have come here and gone from here. please tell us more about your struggle. How you kept clean for so long, and what happened that you fell after so many clean days/years.

if you have a link of your old thread, you may post it here as well.

Hatzlacha

Cordnoy, very interesting. It is noteworthy that the conversation is initiated by us - apparently. The claim to Hashem that he must return us first is a good claim it appears, but we need to make the claim. And who enables us and inspires us to want to make and actually make the claim?

newaction, thanks for your point. If you can provide some sources indicating whether it is ok to do so or not, that would be enlightening. If anyone else has thoughts sources to share, please mention!

Hi lomed, glad to discuss. For now I am leaving the old handle behind, after all it was a different period in my life and the mindset and activity played a different role. I believe that unfortunately it was a flawed mindset that was the underlying foundation for my original growth and when that crumbled everything went along with it, so here is my chance to begin again. The techniques were helpful but they were at least partially heavily rooted in selfish and flawed desires and expectations.

I need to think about which techniques helped me along. Some big ones for me were having a solid group of like minded people who supported each other and were open and honest. Deals to give large amounts of money to charity in the event of a fall were a good deterrent, and of course constant tfilla was the real driving factor for success. But a lot of the motivation is now missing. At this point it is a level of ahava/yirah which is motivating me, and the misconceptions are gone, but along with them the strength of the driving factors. Has its pros and cons.

shmirasshmiras wrote:


Karov Hashem lechol kor'av....He comes close to all who call out to Him.....but the condition is b'emes.....so self-honesty is what propels us to reach out....perhaps.

Don't get too down on yourself about the "starting again" thing. Even the guy with a year clean streak really just started again every morning, for 365 days straight. You never left.

Yeah totally agree to talmidchaim.
Shmiras,
sounds like the fact youre coming back here means deep down or not so deep down you are actually taking the initiative to return to G-d. I feel that bechira is not just an option but built in to our good side-neshama is a force heading to Hashem, like ramchal mesilas yeshsrim compares to a piece of metal attracted to a magnet. So we just have to move out of the way-which could mean recognizing the junk blocking the magnetic force- and then we start moving back in the right direction. What do you think?

Cordnoy, I think that's an important diyuk/clause. We fool ourselves all too often with why we are actually doing things. Rav Wolbe delves into many of the thought processes behind why someone would have the motivation for various activities and they are not always rooted in the good things we wish to believe they are.

I wanted to tell you, when I left my computer a few days ago, my phone was in my pocket and an app for siddur/tanach go pressed as I was walking. When I saw my phone I realized that the app was open to the first pasuk of Zecharia. I read the first few psukim and the 3rd one says Shuvu elai v'ashuv aleichem. I wasn't sure what to make of this but it was astounding to see it "coincidentally" pop up moments after our conversation.

Rav Etzlo and Talmidchaim,

Great points, thank you. I think thats an important mindset to have. I like the idea that the closeness and connection is already there, as long as we pave the way from the blockages.

And it's not easy to keep that fact in mind, believe me. My knee jerk emotional attitude is to feel like drek. But that attitude really is the worst thing for you.